34 replies to this topic

[Ryuku]

Well, since zerkers are obviously overpowered, I have an idea. If you're zerking will you hit your target? Most likely once, but if you miss that target, you should hit other people, even you're allies. This would be cool, but shouldn't take affect PvM.

[trippin]

Would promote pking but I pk enough so eh..But I disagree with this too..

[Rappy_Ninja]

sounds pretty cool


and whats with this newb"promotes pking"

just stfu and stay in arilin arena

pking is part of the game

[Ryuku]

How does it promote pking? It demotes it. If you have the chance of hitting allies for 200 damage I don't think someone with risk it.

[Da_J_Mooney]

Ummm duh... Are you ppl stupid? RF is a spell that makes u HIT MORE and FOR MORE... of course ur gonna hit more with a zerk... now stop sayin zerks are overpowered when they have spells.... cuz....um.... what do you do when you go to PK? SPELL!!!

[Ryuku]

I know it makes you hit more, but being able to do 1200 (maybe a little more, but yeah possible) in a round is crazy! Tell me any class that can go near that much.

[Da_J_Mooney]

it doesnt matter if any other class can go that much, Zerks are MEANT to hit hard, and so... that is wut they do..

[Ryuku]

Zerkers are meant to be a very powerful class, yet miss alot, to balance them out. But when they hit a full round, that destorys the balance. If a ranger (second most powerful imo) hits every time, they can round, but it's not too common in any case.

[TimmyRamone]

Zerkers aren't overpowered in the fact that everyone can have one. I'm not the first to say it. If someone is killing you with their zerker, then get one. It's not a hard concept to grasp.

[Charon]

Zerkers aren't overpowered in the fact that everyone can have one. I'm not the first to say it. If someone is killing you with their zerker, then get one. It's not a hard concept to grasp.

No it isn't a hard concept to grasp...
But I personally don't see why I should have to get a zerk just because I'm sick of my paladin/mage/whatever being killed by one.

[Squee]

Zerkers aren't overpowered in the fact that everyone can have one. I'm not the first to say it. If someone is killing you with their zerker, then get one. It's not a hard concept to grasp.

Monkey see; monkey do. Ladies and gentlemen, I present you your monkey?

Look. To just tell people that they should just go with the trend is a terrible thing to say. So it helps them now; big deal.

People are being persecuted over-seas for their religion; why bother getting involved and taking unnecessary risks when it's so easy to just arm ourselves and go with the flow. I mean, as long as you save your skin, who cares, right?

It's that kind of attitude that propels Nightmist into a downward spiral.

At least open up your mind to the possibilities.

...Or you could always pick up a weapon and start your own "Ethnic Cleansing".

[Criminal]

Anyone who thinks berserkers are overpowered are completely and totally mistaken. They were overpowered when they came out, hence their nickname "Ranger Killers". 6 stamina does conflict with fighter individuality, but fighters didn't have any special trait besides that and armor to begin with. 1 on 1 halfling rangers own berserkers. Berserkers simply miss too much, and if you've ever been straight up rounded by one, he was spelled.

[Lowlife]

Zerkers aren't overpowered, if they hit full rounds, they are spelled or you have really sucky stats. They miss too much as it is, and if they missed anymore, they would be useless.

[Ryuku]

Mine hits too much then, maybe I'm lucky, so I guess I'll make 10 zerker party.

Edited by Ryuku, 07 October 2004 - 11:12 PM.

[lowmion]

a beserker wouldnt hit it's allies in a beserk as the allies would be behind it, not in front of it.

[Eternyte]

That being the case then a berserker should not be able to berserk with allies on the same square, since spacial accuracy isn't able to be presented in Nightmist the only possible way an ally/party member could be behind the berserker would be for them to be off the square when they attack.

THEY ARE BERSERKERS. Does anyone know what the meaning of the word berserk is? Destructively or frenetically violent, Mentally or emotionally upset; deranged. Meaning berserkers dont think before they attack they just swing with everything they have, sometimes they get lucky and sometimes they dont.

They are beings with massive strength and little control over it, hence why they hit so hard and various rounds.

Very interesting point. Berserkers swing their wepons violently, and are deranged, and don't think before they attack. Alright then, a little proposal.

Don't know why I haven't thought of it before *slaps head*

Berserkers lose 25hp for everytime they use berserk. I suggest that for every berserker using berserk in a party that 25hp is removed from every member.

So 6 berserkers in a party, after the 6 full rounds every crit in their party would have lost 25hp*6crits = 150hp lost from every single crit.

Perhaps then berserkers wouldn't be used in bulk as a huge party, or maybe smite would be used instead which is highly unreliable.

I posted this idea back in June on another topic, but people seemed to totally ignore it, probably because it made so much sence, and they couldn't pk with their party of berserkers so effectively without consequence.

[lowmion]

/t Eternyte very true actually, didnt think of it that way

[TheNobleOne]

In reality zerk works like this. The Zerker gets a fury of anger and launches a succession of forcefull individual attacks. It is not like he is spinning blindly. As the zerker knows what he is trying to hit. However, since the attack is so forcefull he can't compensate when a player attampts to dodge the attack. hence why it misses so much unless spelled. hence they will not hit a ally

Edited by TheNobleOne, 13 October 2004 - 12:13 PM.

[Malavon]

In reality zerk works like this. The Zerker gets a fury of anger and launches a succession of forcefull individual attacks. It is not like he is spinning blindly. As the zerker knows what he is trying to hit. However, since the attack is so forcefull he can't compensate when a player attampts to dodge the attack. hence why it misses so much unless spelled. hence they will not hit a ally

tbh this sounds like more of an accurate description of berserk than any of the other ones ive heard here.

[Eternyte]

The ability you decribed is what I interpret Smite to be. A massive attack with all out force, thus easily missed.

Berserk I think is a rapid attack, where the berserker is not thinking about what they are doing. They are in a fit of rage, so spinning wildly (hence the use of numerous stamina as individual hits) would not be too far from the concept.

If however, you interpret Berserk as an aimed ability, what do you interpret Smite to be?

Edited by Eternyte, 13 October 2004 - 03:31 PM.

[Malavon]

what do you interpret Smite to be?

What I think:

Smite is when you put all your stamina and strength into just one strong blow that does extremely high damage, but also has a high chance of missing.

Berserk is when the berserker goes berserk and, instead of dealing one powerful blow, he makes several weaker attacks that each have a chance of missing. The berserker focuses on just his target, and because of this doesn't take notice of any attacks made on him. However, because the target is being forced back by the ferocity of the berserkers attacks, he doesn't manage to make any fatal cuts, only weak slashes (hence the 25 damage, or however much it is)

[Eternyte]

However, because the target is being forced back by the ferocity of the berserkers attacks, he doesn't manage to make any fatal cuts, only weak slashes

This being the case, then the Berserk ability should not be doing 100+ damage per stamina sometimes so much as 190+, this amount of damage can in no way be explained as weak.

Weak in terms of another class I would say 20-30, however, obviously a berserker is far stronger. So a weak attack from such a strong class should be 30-60 plus missing frequently as you stated.

We disagree in the terms of what we personally interpret the abilities so mean. However, you stated that it should be a weak attack. So the damage in no way, spelled or otherwise should be so great. So maybe that would be the way forward in modifying them, good idea.

[Ryuku]

Berserk, look up the definition, as Eternyte did, is a an attack of blind rage, the rage blinds you as such, so you wouldn't know who anyone was, including your allies, and even if you did, putting all the force, and you berserk at someone, with all that force, you wouldn't be able to stop yourself, and heading at an ally, wether you know or not, you will hit them.

[lowmion]

/t Ryuku

If ya talking about 'irl' definitions then try feeding a scott pureblood a bottle of dark rum and then annoy him/her, ya will find when they go 'beserk' they will be quite focused in their attack, and apologise profusely for it later.

But this isnt real life, however i do agree with Eternyte's point of veiw.

[Malavon]

However, because the target is being forced back by the ferocity of the berserkers attacks, he doesn't manage to make any fatal cuts, only weak slashes

This being the case, then the Berserk ability should not be doing 100+ damage per stamina sometimes so much as 190+, this amount of damage can in no way be explained as weak.

Weak in terms of another class I would say 20-30, however, obviously a berserker is far stronger. So a weak attack from such a strong class should be 30-60 plus missing frequently as you stated.

We disagree in the terms of what we personally interpret the abilities so mean. However, you stated that it should be a weak attack. So the damage in no way, spelled or otherwise should be so great. So maybe that would be the way forward in modifying them, good idea.

I obviously didn't make it clear enough; the person you are attacking makes the weak slashes back at you, hence why you take the damage when you attack. Nobody, no matter how berserk/stupid they are, will cut themselves accidently.

/t Ryuku jesus, learn where to put commas. i may not put them in the right place but at least my sentences are actually readable. You can believe what you want, but berserk, imo, does not mean it's a blind rage. If it was then you wouldn't stand a chance in hitting that level 30 fighter, because not only does he have better armour, he is also more skilled (coz he isnt the one in the blind rage). and dont say that a level 30 zerker could coz hes skilled too, because level and skill means nuts when, as you all claim, the person is crazy enough to be attacking his allies as well as his enemies.

[Eternyte]

I obviously didn't make it clear enough; the person you are attacking makes the weak slashes back at you, hence why you take the damage when you attack. Nobody, no matter how berserk/stupid they are, will cut themselves accidently.

No, the 25hp taken when you use berserk is the damage you do to yourself. Otherwise, how could you berserk at a bunny (which doesn't attack), and still take a 25hp loss? Using your reasoning, this would be impossible.

This is why berserk should take hp away from ally's and party members.

[Malavon]

No, the 25hp taken when you use berserk is the damage you do to yourself.

Nobody, no matter how berserk/stupid they are, will cut themselves accidently.

Edited by Malavon, 15 October 2004 - 02:19 PM.

[Eternyte]

Nobody, no matter how berserk/stupid they are, will cut themselves accidently.

So you've never cut yourself on maybe a scissors, knife, piece of paper? These situations arrise when your not in a frenzied anger, and you're not wielding a massive sharp blade/axe.

I'm reading what you are saying, but apparently it's a 1 stop train.

I obviously didn't make it clear enough; the person you are attacking makes the weak slashes back at you, hence why you take the damage when you attack.

No, the damage you take from the other person is when they attack you. Which is more then 25hp because since the berserker is in a frenzy they are unable to dodge attacks successfully. I used the analogy of the bunny as a very simple explanation, which you obviously don't understand.

A bunny doesn't do any damage to anything, it doesn't attack, it just sits there and does nothing. Using your reason why berserkers lose 25hp, this would be impossible as a bunny cannot make 'weak slashes' back at the berserker. So the only feasible explantion is that the berserker is damaging itself.

This being so, it displays the berserkers inability to have control over his actions, since he is damaging himself. So there is no possible way he could miss his allys/party members (in the same vacinity) using the very same frenzied attack.

[Malavon]

So you've never cut yourself on maybe a scissors, knife, piece of paper?

Yes, but then i'm not an experienced barbarian warrior wielding a huge halberd, living in some fantasy world fighting orcs and nuts, am I? Real life examples can only go so far before they just become stupid; yours just reached that point. Move on.

I used the analogy of the bunny as a very simple explanation, which you obviously don't understand.

I did understand it, and I can understand the point you made, but it doesn't have to make sense. Not everything in Nightmist makes sense; why can you only carry 14 potions, when you can carry 14 halberds? Do they both way the same amount? No. Does the halberd take up FAR more room? Yes. Why can you attack at the same speed with a halberd as you would if you had a dagger equiped? Which is going to be easy to wield and which is going to allow you to make faster attacks? The dagger, obviously. It doesn't make sense, but you just have to accept it.

Berserkers would never damaging their allies while berserk. There is no way that the berserker could accidently hit them. If he is so "berserk" that he does 25 damage to himself (using your argument) then how can you justify him doing 100+ to his allies, when it is far easier to accidently cut yourself than it is to accidently stab your friend standing next to you? If the most damage he can possible do to himself is 25, and the chances of him hitting and hurting an ally are even smaller (which they are), then that means he'd be doing about 10 damage to his allies, if that. 10 damage I could probably stretch to agree with, but anything else is just taking it too far.

If the party member accidently gets in the way, then yes the berserk could damage him, but that could happen to any class, so let's add the feature for all classes to damage allies accidently. As I said earlier, you can only take things so far before it becomes stupid, and your crossing that line wtih your arguments.

Edited by Malavon, 15 October 2004 - 05:47 PM.

[Eternyte]

If he is so "berserk" that he does 25 damage to himself (using your argument) then how can you justify him doing 100+ to his allies

Berserkers lose 25hp for everytime they use berserk. I suggest that for every berserker using berserk in a party that 25hp is removed from every member.

I never said they should hit their allies for 100+

I did understand it, and I can understand the point you made, but it doesn't have to make sense.

There has to be a point at which things have to make sense, otherwise we should have newly rolled charcters with 10 in every stat pking staff members?

I agree it would bring more realism for a halberd to take up perhaps 4 inventory spaces, and other items adjusted accordingly.

I would also like to see rangers lose their shield, because you can not operate a bow whilst using a shield. In replacement they should carry a quiver, in which they could store a certain amount of arrows, and different quivers could be bought at higher levels to store more arrows. Like a mages mana, if a mages magical powers is exhaustable, then arrows definately are. They should also have to carry more arrows in their inventory for when they run out of arrows from their quiver.

I appreciate the game doesn't always have to make sense are rarely does in a lot of situations, but the game would improve no end with these type of additions. Which is effectively what everyones goal should be, the development of the game itself.