324 replies to this topic

[Zylia]

Before on my SATs I was getting you know... low 90s, high 80's 1 or two. of 99s..

This year, I got all 99s (da best) except for one 92 and a 98.  Bush's education plan has worked wonders for me at least...

LOL !

Cleary Bush's education plan hasn't done crap for you.

I got an 1160 on my SAT's. No clue where you get a 100% ranking score on an SAT... SAT is a requirement for most college admissions. SAT scores are based in verbal and math... and you can get up to a 1600 with the two grades added (one of my friends was tutored for SAT's, quite expensively, and only averaged at a 1350...) Mec you've just proved again your nothing but a youngin'. Also, Bush has had nothing to do with my education. This year, my high school's budget didn't pass. As a result 3/4 of their spending was shot. My final high school GPA was a 91.4. Explain how a cut in my schools education lead to my good grades? It didn't, you know what led to my good grades ----------> My good effort.

AIDS/HIV isn't exclusively or primarily transmitted through homosexuals. You're a moron if you think that. Africa has one of the largest outbreaks of the virus and you know why? Overall unprotected sex. You engage in any sexual activity unprotected (this includes oral if im not mistaken, please correct me if I'm wrong) with either a male or female who is infected with the virus already you put yourself at risk. The rumor of homosexuals and spreading HIV is a scare from decades ago. There is no truth to it, heterosexuals are just as prone as homosexuals.

I also fully believe that you don't read anyone elses post. I think you are in a little padded room where everything echoes and you hear your little voice thinking that many people are rallying behind you. They are not. I think you have maybe two little mistaken followers, and they're probably in the same youthful age of ignorance as you. As Karri said, we haven't established jack with you because either 1) you wont let us or 2) your not listening to a word we say. We're listening to what you put forth and presenting a alterior idea of the same subject. Can you please try to read AND understand what other people are saying? Before you babble on senselessly about how we are the 'stupid evil people' would you try to understand that other viewpoints aren't always wrong. Just because its different doesn't make it wrong.

[Shera]

Many, many kidnappings are done by gay people.

Being gay is the #1 way to spread aids and that stuff, too.


Also, if being gay is an 'option' to people, more people will be gay, and that's bad, because we will have fewer children that way, and even if they adopt, the children require a mother AND a father.

Sorry Lich I know you want all of us to ignore him however I really hate the misinformation that he spreads so right now I feel the need to correction on some things.

Mec the vast MAJORITY of child abductions are what they call "family abductions." meaning that a member of the childs own family abducts them, usually a parent because of divorce. Since homosexual couples are for the most part not allowed to get married those are HETEROsexual couples that do the majority of the child abductions in the United States. The Center for Missing and Exploited Children does not even have a criteria for missing children that says anything about homosexual people in it. From that I infere that the stats on that actually happening are very low. They categorize missing children in the following manner based on the greatest numbers: runaways, family abductions, then lost, injured or otherwise missing children, the last category is nonfamily abductions/"sterotypical abductions" I can tell you with certainty that the '"sterotypical" abductions are called just that because they refer to the sterotype of the people that commit these types of abductions and the circumstances surrounding them, meaning they are refering to white, heterosexual men that are typically between the ages of 25 and 40. Here take a look at their website: http://www.missingki...US&PageId=242#2 It will not talk about the exactly what the "sterotypical abduction" is exactly, I pulled those out of my own head based on the schooling I have had on the subject. Before you try to demonize people GET THE CORRECT INFORMATION on the subject!


Being gay is NOT the #1 way to spread aids. Aids is spread through bodily fluids. You cant spread AIDS just by being gay. again: GET THE CORRECT INFORMATION on the subject! Here's some information for you on the subject of aids and the numbers: http://www.worldrevo...page/aids/intro
In case you didnt know and I'm assuming that you didnt. The continent with the greatest per capita AIDS numbers is Africa. The majority of that is male to female sex. Look at the rates of AIDS for children under 5 on that page. These women got aids from their partners, which unless woman have now grown turnip' MEN, heterosexual or bisexual at least, helped do it.

Now on the adoption issue. There are plenty of children in foster care that need adopting. Here are some stats (they are from 1994 but they are the best I could find without spending too long looking) http://aspe.hhs.gov/...rends/pf2-3.htm
In 1994 there were 462 thousand children in the US foster care system!!! Children go into foster care for a variety of reasons, but in some situations they are removed from their parents because they are not fit to raise them. A lot of these children need homes and people to love them. You may not think that homosexual people make good parents but I do not believe that it is up to you to decide who makes a good parent or not. You are NOT god. What gives you or any other narrow minded person the right to deprive these children of loving parents? Yes Mec that is what you are doing. Until you personally find a home for every child in foster care that are taken away from their family perminantly, please do not go on and on about social security and the lack of children. I was in foster care so was my little sister. So if you'd like to know, assuming that you do not know first hand, what is it like it foster care feel free to contact me and I'll let you know because believe me I did not have a positive experience in there, neither did my little sister. Yes I know some people that did but the majority do not. I will not go into the specifics on the forum because well it's not a pretty story and I dont tell a lot of peole about it. Oh and based on the statistics considering that the smallest the number of children in foster care out of every 1,000 children grew by .1 a year, currently that would mean based on that percentage that out of 1,000 children 7.8 of them are in foster care right now. So that would be roughly between 550 and 700 thousand children. Probably more then that, however I did not know to take the time to adjust the rate for the current number of children in the united states.


EDIT: OK so you did correct yourself on the spread of aids sorta of but I hadnt seen your post then i was writing this so.
EDIT: gah I made an oops with the percent. I forgot to say that it was at least .1 percent growth per year that I was talking about.

Edited by Shera, 06 August 2004 - 12:33 AM.

[Lich]

Chuckles as i read this and know for a fact that maha is also going to ignore me and talk to him anyway..


Mec no one is rallying behind you, No one at all you are all alone, Pengiun at least even though he has a diferent veiw then us has presented at least a minor arguement that made sence from one point of view. Looking at those numbers i also understand that you have never even seen a SAT score sheet.

Oh so you know I passed and was exceptedto maryland state, I recieved a degree in Ambalance medical science before most are even out of high school, and that with being DISLEXIC, So before you continue on this line i want to point out only one thing.

The more you speak the Dumber you look, please stop i wouldn`t wish the way you look right now on my worst enemy.

[Karri]

I didn't think the SAT's he described sounded quite right, but we don't have them up here so I didn't want to comment.

[Shera]

I didn't think the SAT's he described sounded quite right, but we don't have them up here so I didn't want to comment. 

Could be that he just didnt want to say his number score on the combined verbal and math parts I dunno. However he is wrong about the 99% you can get 100%.
According to this website that my sister showed me you can actually get 4 of the verbal and 1 of the math questions wrong and still get a 1600. http://www.collegevi.../sat_score.html

Edited by Shera, 06 August 2004 - 01:50 AM.

[Penguin]

ugh THE POST JUST KEEP COMING ENDLESSLY

obviously std's don't just spawn via homo sex, I was making a point and you helped it maha, he said "if it doesn't hurt anyone" but through things like stds it CAN

the #1 way aids is spread is homo sex

and after a few post I got bored so yeah...

[InsaneNinjaPhreak]

I just read this page, and just want to make a comment towards Foster Care, I do have some experience with it as my parents used to be Foster Parents and over the years we had been Foster Parents we had actually helped out a lot of kids, and some teens as well...I guess I'm just trying to say that all foster homes aren't horrible, and after some of the kids had been living with us and gone away for a couple of years and we had seen them again and they we're doing better than they would have been....but I'm done now, I don't feel like reading this entirely and since I am not from the US I don't feel the need to really pay attention to any of it very much

[afireinside]

I do not want my children to be gay, I do not want this to look like an 'option' for them. I should not have to bear the social or whatever pain of my child being gay.

you dont have a say in that now do you

[Penguin]

huh?

he doesn't want his kids to be exposed to it, I don't understand what you mean DEWD

Edited by Penguin, 06 August 2004 - 04:32 AM.

[Shadowmaster]

he means that when his kids are old enough they will decide wether it be choice or not he has no say in it, as for them being exposed to it he cant help that as it is here, and will not be going away it has been here for centuries, before christianity and after.

When they were forced to be in the closet they were still here you just never heard from them unless you met them and they decided to tell you, making laws to take away thier rights is not doing anything but forcing them to go against the very prinicables that the US was founded on. It is exactly the same as if you tried to change the rules and put black men back in chains.


Actually the new number one way to get aidsis through unprotected hetrosex. The women has hadsex with someone who is infected and doesn`t know then she spreads it to the next, Aids covention speech from the united states representive this year stated that loud and clear for all to hear, gays are just an easy scape goat that people want to believe the reason. Did you know at one time untill medical science proved it court the US thought you could only get polo if you wre black, but the truth was it wasunclean living conditions not your color, it is the same here it doesnt matter what your sex oriantaion is if it did it would be a strickly gay disease which its not.

[Lady_Maha]

I am surprised daily by Mec's ignorance. Fortunately other people have already posted most of the arguments I was going to present here, so I will not repeat them in full length.

Mec, you have established nothing but the fact that you are an uneducated child who ignores the majority of the people posting here and instead keeps preaching down his own warped views over and over again.

WE have established that abortion does NOT hurt you, you ignored us.
WE have established that gay people do not harm anyone, you ignored us.
WE have established that homosexuality is not choice, you ignored us.

If you ever have children and nature decides that they turn homosexual, are you going to love them any less? If so, I feel sorry for your children.

[Shera]

I just read this page, and just want to make a comment towards Foster Care, I do have some experience with it as my parents used to be Foster Parents and over the years we had been Foster Parents we had actually helped out a lot of kids, and some teens as well...I guess I'm just trying to say that all foster homes aren't horrible, and after some of the kids had been living with us and gone away for a couple of years and we had seen them again and they we're doing better than they would have been....but I'm done now, I don't feel like reading this entirely and since I am not from the US I don't feel the need to really pay attention to any of it very much

I was not trying to say that all foster homes/foster parents are bad. As I said I do know some people that had positive experiences in foster care. By experiences I was meaning the entire process, from being removed from their home and placed into the foster care system to however they end up leaving the foster care system. That's why I said the majority do no. Part of what I meant is, (I'm sorry I didnt put it exactly I just didnt want to make my post that much longer) that it's hard for the kids to be removed from where they were living and turned over to people that they dont know yet. Even if it is for good reasons and the majority of times it is, it is still stressful for the children. I actually plan to become a foster parent later. My grandparents were foster parents for a while so I do know there are good ones out there. I apologize if it seemed like I was suggesting that there are not.

Edited by Shera, 06 August 2004 - 04:12 PM.

[Charon]

WE have established that abortion does NOT hurt you, you ignored us.
WE have established that gay people do not harm anyone, you ignored us.
WE have established that homosexuality is not choice, you ignored us.

Maha, I agree with your statements to some extent, but not with their phrasing ^^


Mec... to be blunt you are male. I am not saying males have no say on abortion, for certain they do, I just want to try and establish an arguement against this 'abortion personally hurts me' thing.
You are not a woman, you will never be a woman, you will never have an abortion done on you.
If a woman, any woman, for any reason decides to have an abortion, you do not feel the pain of that decision.
You are detatched from that.
If that woman is your significant other or loved one and she chooses to wish to have an abortion- yes, then and only then is a legitimate reason for you to feel hurt by it. Otherwise, people having an abortion has no bearing on yourself whatsoever.


"WE have established that gay people do not harm anyone, you have ignored US"

Gay people have the same capacity to hurt others as heterosexual people... there is no difference in that respecy, all are people, and EVERYONE is capable of hurting others.

More correctly (being picky ^^) gay people do not harm anyone by being gay.
If someone falls in love with someone of the same sex, or the other sex, thats none of my buisness, it is their right to live their lives. They have every right to love whoever they desire.
I also have every right to love who I choose.

And by saying who I "choose".... I create a problem don't I?
Because perhaps, just perhaps I do choose to love that person. If I decided I hated that person instead, would I? I'm not certain. The mind is a mystery to me.
Sexuality, choice...

I would hate it if I fell in love with a boy, only to be confronted with the ideal that only same sex couples were allowed, and I hate to think some people face that today simply because some people fall in love with those who are of the same gender.
In my example, would I or wouldn't I have chosen the way I felt about that person?
I'm not certain... can I physically decide how I am going to feel?
My brain does that, there are chemicals and whatnot... yes some large part of how I feel may come from my upbringing, my surroundings, books I've read, things I've seen in my life...
But the way I feel is not a conscious choice. Yes there are many things I can choose... but to a large extent my emotions are not part of that choice.

The Nature/Nurture arguement is an old one, and its one that I for one am not sure I would want to be answered. Because if it were to be answered would a group of people try to force their ideals on the unborn?

If it were decided that there was a "right" way to live, that there are "natural" genes for everything, (turns to science fiction) we could end up in a very dull oppressive society where all 'undesirable' elements... all differences of opinion are rooted out before birth.
If people could no longer be a certain colour(dont hate me, its just an example), sexuality, height... if it were decided there were a gene for weight or intelligence... if peoples personal choices were affected by a gene or genes that could be controlled and changed... (such as the ideas of a so called 'criminal' gene some scientists are currently looking for...)
Genetics would become too powerful.

Likewise with upbringing... if it were proven that by living a specific way all 'deviants' would be eradicated from society... what sort of world would we live in?

Homosexuality may be a choice and it may not. If it is, it is an unconscious one. Either way, noone should be descriminated against simply because of the way they feel, not when feelings are not something that can be fully controlled by anyone

And indeed, I most certainly feel for Mec;s future children, if the day ever comes when one of them happens to love another who doesn't fall into Mec's "acceptable" cliche. I would hope your love for your child would make you happy that they found someone they wanted to love for the rest of their life.

I would hope.


Edit: changed "If that woman is your significant other" to "If that woman is your significant other or a loved one" because in my mind thats what I thought I was saying originally. I meant it to apply to family/perhaps close friends.
Sorry for my oversight

Edited by Charon, 06 August 2004 - 07:50 PM.

[Mec]

Abortion = less population = harmful to me. 'nuff said. You've ignored this. Oh, plus it would be harmful to me, and would grieve me deeply if it was my daughter who was killing MY GRANDCHILD.

According to you, murder is none of my business either, because it doesn't harm me, unless I was the one who got murdered.


Gay people harm me in the same way that people sitting next to me pick their nose and eat it, or if they pass gas. It's disgusting and rude, and I don't want to have to deal with that. PLUS, because being gay is becoming acceptable in society, and I don't want my children to be gay, which is more likely if it is acceptable, because I believe that it is wrong. And you've ignored me.


Being gay is a choice, people are gay because they can be, not because they are that way. People couldn't be gay in medival Europe, so they weren't. I'd rather not have gay people around me, thank you. I've said this and you've ignored me. So, think before you calling the kettle black, pot.

Edited by Mec, 06 August 2004 - 06:39 PM.

[Lich]

People couldnt be gay in medevil europe..lmao .. Dude there are more gay people in the medevil ages than there is now..lmao.. Some were famous one of them was broke his whole life and now his paintings sell for no less than a millon dollars..lol...


Mec we have not ignored you we have answered each and every post you have made they all suck, your a Bigot and that is it. If you cant live with people being people get off the planet make us all happy.


here is a new topic i want legislation anyone who shows signs of bigotry should be hung from the neck untill dead because they are dangerous to the human race.. please start with mec i will get a rope.

and so you didnt miss it mec now i am pissed off, You are a biggot it is people like you that cause deaths, it is people like you that destroy a possibly peacful world bcause you think it revolves around you. Well here is a hint you 14 year old looser it doesn`t. You are just another biggot on the tree.

Edited by Lich, 06 August 2004 - 07:00 PM.

[Mec]

I am surprised postly by Lich's and those wacko's ignorance... and mine, sometimes. I would insult the way Lich uses his brain, but then I would think he didn't have one at all, and then I would think he does, he's just not smart enough to know how to use it properly, but then I would hold my tounge (and let my fingers do the work )

How come you never hear of gay people in the medieval ages now?

Oh wait.. stupid medieval ages... there wasn't enough order and there was too much anarchy and bleh and bleh and bleh stuff... people could do whatever they wanted... In medieval england, at least, there weren't many, I think. I wouldn't know. Sorry about that. I still would like evidence though that there were gay people in medieval europe.

Some were famous one of them was broke his whole life and now his paintings sell for no less than a millon dollars..lol...

What about Van Gogh? IT was the same with him, and indeed many artists.



Ok

Lich, we need to think a bit.

Mec we have not ignored you we have answered each and every post you have made they all suck, your a Bigot and that is it. If you cant live with people being people get off the planet make us all happy

You haven't answered them adequately enough. MY arguments are still (for the most part) valid and yours don't change that.

I can live with people being people. I can live with gay people being gay people.. I just wouldn't like it AT ALL.

Look, you can live in a prison cell being fed only rats.


Look, I can't kill people, why should pregnant women get to murder their babies? It's not fair!

Edited by Mec, 06 August 2004 - 07:04 PM.

[Lich]

My mind works the way it does because im tired of talking to a 14 year old biggot with a brian equal to a penny after being hit by a train.


First off mec we have explained everything you have asked on here more than twice. I will not repost them. Medevil england was ruled at one time by a queen who was repported as being lesbian.

yes i can live in a cell being fed rats and if that was life i would deal with it. Abortion is fair to those who need it. You call it killing a baby when as i have told you already, It is not even classified as alive untill it has show one of three things which an abortable baby has not.

There is no brain activity, untill into the second month therefore it is brain dead, there is no breathing it could not live outside the womb, if a adult human showed any of these things it would never be put pn life support at all .. therefore dieing and aborting anyhope of life. All a women is doing is removing those cells from er body.

You have said its not fair to who, You. Even if it is yours that she is abborting you have no say in it at all. It is not your body, you cant even fight for custody untill it is born and therfore she has the RIGHT to decide if she wishes to carry it for the trm not you. There is no fair to it.

Edited by Lich, 06 August 2004 - 07:12 PM.

[sarah_rain]

A woman has the choice to have an abortion right? Lets think about this a minute.


suppose you are a young woman.....
suppose the unborn child you are going to have is poisoning your body.....
suppose the only way for you to survive is to kill your unborn child....
suppose the father of this child is also involved in the choice....


suppose you are a young woman.....
suppose you are a victim of a sexual assault....
suppose you become pregnant .....
suppose you choose to have an abortion.....


Is the life of an unborn child important...yes to me it is.

But sometimes there are choices all of us make for a valid reason.

Those choices may not be easy.. but it is a choice that some may have to make.

I hope Mec that someday you dont have to deal with that choice.
That the woman you love isnt being poisoned by the unborn child.
that she hasnt been sexually assaulted ....

But all I want to do is wish you luck and hope that with time and education and acceptance you can understand these hard and very painful choices some people have to make.

[Mec]

[quote name='Lich' date='Aug 6 2004, 02:09 PM'] My mind works the way it does because im tired of talking to a 14 year old biggot with a brian equal to a penny after being hit by a train.


First off mec we have explained everything you have asked on here more than twice. I will not repost them. Medevil england was ruled at one time by a queen who was repported as being lesbian.

yes i can live in a cell being fed rats and if that was life i would deal with it. Abortion is fair to those who need it. You call it killing a baby when as i have told you already, It is not even classified as alive untill it has show one of three things which an abortable baby has not.

There is no brain activity, untill into the second month therefore it is brain dead, there is no breathing it could not live outside the womb, if a adult human showed any of these things it would never be put pn life support at all .. therefore dieing and aborting anyhope of life. All a women is doing is removing those cells from er body.

You have said its not fair to who, You. Even if it is yours that she is abborting you have no say in it at all. It is not your body, you cant even fight for custody untill it is born and therfore she has the RIGHT to decide if she wishes to carry it for the trm not you. There is no fair to it.



[/quote]
[QUOTE]Baby = part of mother.

I = citizen = part of US. Am I a country? No. Do I harm the country at all?

Can the US just decide for it's own selfish reason, if I've done NOTHING wrong, can it execute me? It's laws say no.


But the baby is a part of the mother and the mother can decide to execute the baby.

No, the mother should NOT have the right to kill a baby who has done NOTHING wrong.

There is NOTHING wrong with a baby, he/she is INNOCENT.

The mother of the baby wasn't aborted, she was carried by her mother for nine months. Why can't she do the same for the baby?

If everybody aborted their babies, then the human race would die out! I AM part of the human race and I don't want MY RACE to die out!


If I decide to kill you, all I'd be doing is 'removing some cells from my presence'.

I have established one thing: Do you care to argue about the documents created by our founding fathers?

All men are created(not born) equal . . . .

AND

We hold these rights to be inalienable(sp?). . .life liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

So pretty much, if we are created equal, we all have the same rights, so ALL that have been created have the same right to life! IF you care to argue with the declaration of independence, I can assure you morons that Jefferson is much, much smarter than you are.


Okay: the queen who was reported as being lesbian. . . who's to say this isn't rumours? Who's to say this isn't made up? Where's the evidence, there is none.
Anyway, I've said that people are gay because they can. A kikng or queen can do pretty much anything they like. Think a bit.

[quote]
suppose you are a young woman.....
suppose the unborn child you are going to have is poisoning your body.....
suppose the only way for you to survive is to kill your unborn child....
suppose the father of this child is also involved in the choice....
[/quote]

Then and only then would an abortion be the correct thing to do. One's right to life is only questionable if it threatens another's right to life.
[QUOTE]suppose you are a young woman.....
suppose you are a victim of a sexual assault....
suppose you become pregnant .....
suppose you choose to have an abortion.....
[/QUOTE]

Oh, I've been raped, I think I'll kill my baby. . . no. . . I don't think so.


[QUOTE]Abortion is fair to those who need it. You call it killing a baby when as i have told you already, It is not even classified as alive untill it has show one of three things which an abortable baby has not.
[/QUOTE]

I don't think's it's fair to invade someone's right to life. Abortion is almost NEVER fair unless lives are threatened.

I call it killing a baby because thats what it is. I would classify my arm as alive, though it is 'brain-dead'.

[QUOTE]There is no brain activity, untill into the second month therefore it is brain dead, there is no breathing it could not live outside the womb, if a adult human showed any of these things it would never be put pn life support at all .. therefore dieing and aborting anyhope of life.
[/QUOTE]

The difference here is that a baby is starting their life, not ending it. You're not preventing life with the dying adult, but you are with the baby.

[QUOTE]If that woman is your significant other and she chooses to wish to have an abortion- yes, then and only then is a legitimate reason for you to feel hurt by it. Otherwise, people having an abortion has no bearing on yourself whatsoever.[/QUOTE]

Abortion = less population = ba. . . how do I get this distinct feeling of d ja vu?


[QUOTE]If a woman, any woman, for any reason decides to have an abortion, you do not feel the pain of that decision.[/QUOTE]

If someone is murdered by someone, does the judge at the trial feel the pain of the decision to kill someone? No, but he still judges the case.


[QUOTE]More correctly (being picky ^^) gay people do not harm anyone by being gay.
If someone falls in love with someone of the same sex, or the other sex, thats none of my buisness, it is their right to live their lives. They have every right to love whoever they desire.
I also have every right to love who I choose.
[/QUOTE]

Then, using that logic, nothing should happen to pot-heads or druggies. It's none of the judge's or police's business.


I repeat this again, I have not received a VALID ARGUMENT against mine. Think up one and then post. Some things I would like either reposted, or explained again, or thought up.


1. What is wrong with murder.
2. How come unborn babies, created equal to us, do not have the same right to life?
3. Why the hey do you guys think I'm fourteen or thirteen when one would have to do some simple math to figure out that I'm twelve.

[Shera]

Mec do you even read most of what other people post? People have shown that they do listen to you and have things that refute what you have been saying. I'm gonna use Stotic as my example (sorry mike but you make this example perfect) He responded to some of what you said in a very calm, rational manner. You competely ignored what he said. Then other people pointed out to you what he said, you ignored them as well. You started this thread and yet you seem to be the only one on it that wont listen to anything anyone else has to say.

I for one have looked at everything you have said, yes I checked out the link you posted. I did not discount it for the reason that you stated people have. I discounted it because the sociologist the woman is quoting did NOT even say exactly what she's saying he did. Then she talks about a study that was done. NO where does she what study she is talking about, by whom it was done, or even when it was done. I have taken Behavioral Science Statistics so I can tell you that you HAVE to put all of that information at least in your bibliography for it to be valid. She does not even do that much. She would not be allowed to have published her paper in a scientific journal because of that. So based on that you cant take what she says as fact. Well I mean you can, however it's unscientific and unprovable. So that makes that part of her article pure conjecture. Well personally I think that entire article was pure conjecture. I have posted licks to sites that are reputable and I think anyways, help prove the points I was trying to make. You have not done so.

You use your faith as a sorta shield to hide behind when people say things on here that you have disagreed with. No I am not attacking your faith, I am attacking the way you hide behind it. It is very easy to say that you disagree with something based strictly on your faith because faith is very personal and subjective. Dont get your panties in a bunch, it IS subjective. You believe in god out of faith, it cant be proven thus it is subjective. I too believe in god. Although it appears that we believe in two different gods since the god I believe in is about love not hate like yours. Someone already pointed that out to you and yet you ignored that person as well. Ignorance is NOT bliss. I inform myself about different things because I like to be knowledgable. I do not and will not just hide my head in the sand and wave my bible around and hope that I learn things by osmosis or if someone shoots an arrow of knowledge into my bum. Yes that is a dramatic analogy but appropriate I feel in your case.

You are more then free and welcome to believe the things that you believe in based on your faith and religion. I applaud you for that, however there is no excuse for completely discounting what other people have said to you when they have taken the time to give you their opinion and even provided proof of what they say. You are not an ostrich Mec.

Edited by Shera, 06 August 2004 - 07:59 PM.

[Charon]

So, think before you calling the kettle black, pot

*Charon archs her eyebrow in amusement*

Oh, plus it would be harmful to me, and would grieve me deeply if it was my daughter who was killing MY GRANDCHILD.

*concedes*
Fair play to you. I worded my statement badly.
I had thought it was clear that I meant significant other or loved one, where loved one would apply to family... perhaps even close personal friends. I'm sorry.

You are right, such a situation would be very distressing... but if your daughter was forced to make such a decision I would hope you would support her rather than disown her.

I have established one thing: Do you care to argue about the documents created by our founding fathers?

All men are created(not born) equal . . . .

AND

We hold these rights to be inalienable(sp?). . .life liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

I am not an American citizen, those rights do not apply to me
Something similar does, yes...

But you cannot tell me that something is wrong because in your mind it goes against the American constitution... there are other countries in the world.
Hey- even different states in the USA argue about some laws, there are things that are legal in some states and illegal in others... which state is 'right'?
There are reasons why abortion can be considered wrong... do some research and find them. If you wish to argue that abortion is wrong please can you at least stop sounding like a broken record and quoting constitutional rights that do not yet even apply because at the stages when abortion is legal there is not a living being to abort

I'm going to use your logic, but if you dare agree with what I say I shall likely explode:

Abortion is evil because it cuts the population of the world
Gay relationships are evil because they cut the population of the world
By that logic... women and men who are physically unable to have children should not be allowed to marry and have sexual relations (at least with those who are able), because if they do no children shall come of it.... and they will cut the population of the world.

*shudders*
I'm sorry, I truly dont see how you can look at things like that.

Gay people harm me in the same way that people sitting next to me pick their nose and eat it, or if they pass gas. It's disgusting and rude, and I don't want to have to deal with that

That isn't harm
Ignorance, yes... DISCOMFORT yes... but it isn't actually doing you any harm. You might not like it but it isn't harming you

Then, using that logic, nothing should happen to pot-heads or druggies. It's none of the judge's or police's business.

That actually effects other people... and in many cases the drug users themselves... directly.
You cant draw the lines you do.
Homosexuality --> Drug Use *what?* Where did that connection come from?

Being gay is a choice, people are gay because they can be, not because they are that way. People couldn't be gay in medival Europe, so they weren't

I still would like evidence though that there were gay people in medieval europe.

Medevil england was ruled at one time by a queen who was repported as being lesbian.

Medieval England isn't my strong point I'm afraid... but some time ago I vaguely think you mentioned something about Caesar and the Greek/Roman times.
I was wondering what the conclusion to that little bit of history was because I can't find it... and I know a little about the Classical Civilisations

here is a new topic i want legislation anyone who shows signs of bigotry should be hung from the neck untill dead because they are dangerous to the human race.. please start with mec i will get a rope.

Here here >.<
*coughs* *looks away and whistles innocently*

Oh and... "3. Why the hey do you guys think I'm fourteen or thirteen when one would have to do some simple math to figure out that I'm twelve." we were hoping those extra two years might have given you some vague experience in the issues we were discussing... guess we were being generous, eh?

Edited by Charon, 06 August 2004 - 08:14 PM.

[Mec]

. . .

Edit:

They don't apply to you, now, do they? I still think TJ is smarted than you though .

Err, I read the posts somehow out of order: I didn't read yours charon when I posted that particular section...

When quoting the DOI (declaration of ya know), I made NO reference to the child being living. He has been created, correct? The stuff doesn't say all living men are created equal...

I think the whole problem with you saying I'm ignoring you and you're ignoring me is a little misunderstanding, you guys think that I said something about living things and the DOI and the constitution, and think that saying it doesn't live invalidates my statement. I could be wrong, however.

Abortion is evil for the same reason murder is, and people don't want the population to fall needlessly.
Gay people choose to be gay, and shouldn't so it for it makes people uncomfortable.  It also is against people religious belief and will make many people NEEDLESSLY unhappy because they will be rejected and will reject.

Edited by Mec, 06 August 2004 - 09:06 PM.

[Charon]

. . .

Aw come on... you know how wordy I can be ^^
I need more dots than that

Now stop insulting me here and go answer mine and Cranes nice characters in Green_Mantis' Gauntlet

[Charon]

Did I miss who TJ was, or is that reference to Recess? And if so, I think I'm more a Gretchen... only when I read the Iliad I'm smart enough to know that the part with the wooden horse isn't in it

I think the whole problem with you saying I'm ignoring you and you're ignoring me is a little misunderstanding, you guys think that I said something about living things and the DOI and the constitution, and think that saying it doesn't live invalidates my statement. I could be wrong, however.

I know you state that all men are created equal.
What I maintain is that for a man to have been 'created' he must have been given life. This is where the arguement for abortion comes from... a foetus is not yet living... therefore to me that means it has not yet finished being created, therefore the declaration of independance does not apply ^^

It also is against people religious belief and will make many people NEEDLESSLY unhappy because they will be rejected and will reject.

Forgive me, I can't quite get my head around that statement ^^ Just this once would you mind explaining in a little more detail?

Edited by Charon, 06 August 2004 - 09:22 PM.

[Mec]

Did I miss who TJ was, or is that reference to Recess? And if so, I think I'm more a Gretchen... only when I read the Iliad I'm smart enough to know that the part with the wooden horse isn't in it

I think the whole problem with you saying I'm ignoring you and you're ignoring me is a little misunderstanding, you guys think that I said something about living things and the DOI and the constitution, and think that saying it doesn't live invalidates my statement. I could be wrong, however.

I know you state that all men are created equal.
What I maintain is that for a man to have been 'created' he must have been given life. This is where the arguement for abortion comes from... a foetus is not yet living... therefore to me that means it has not yet finished being created, therefore the declaration of independance does not apply ^^

It also is against people religious belief and will make many people NEEDLESSLY unhappy because they will be rejected and will reject.

Forgive me, I can't quite get my head around that statement ^^ Just this once would you mind explaining in a little more detail?

Dictionary.com:

Create: To cause to exist; bring into being.


I believe an unborn baby exists.

Using your logic, I could say that I am not done being created, because I haven't grown a beard yet

TJ = Thomas Jefferson

Alright.

If people do things (be gay) do things that people (me, for instance) don't like, I will attempt to stay away from that person. I don't think I could love somebody who was gay... if a family member, due to poor discipline, was gay, it would grieve be deeply, and cause bad feelings all around and maybe ruin some people's lives...

Edited by Mec, 06 August 2004 - 09:26 PM.

[Charon]

Dictionary.com:

Create: To cause to exist; bring into being.


I believe an unborn baby exists.

Using your logic, I could say that I am not done being created, because I haven't grown a beard yet 

If you warped my logic you could indeed say that... but that isn't what I meant ^^
You have been (note the past tense) created because you have become a living being in your own right

The foetus is being (note the lack of past tense) created in the womb. It is still growing and it is not yet a living organism in and of its own right.

When it actually becomes a living thing... when it can be classed as an "unborn baby" rather than a "growing foetus", in my mind it has been brought into being, and if an abortion occured at that point and not before, I would relent to your accusation of murder

Up until that point it is not alive, not fully created... therefore it cannot be 'killed' for you cannot kill that which does not live.

And now I sound like a broken record eh? ^^;; sorry


And now that family member you mention... (*closes eyes and ignores mention of 'poor discipline'*)

If they were not gay, would you love them? Think about that question long and hard. Do you love them? Why do you love them?

Now continue reading.

Now imagine that same family member being gay? It doesn't change who they are.
Why should the fact that they love someone with the same parts as them cause you to change that love?
It would only ruin someones life if they let it, and unfortunately it's prejudice like yours which succeeds in ruining peoples lives...

Edited by Charon, 06 August 2004 - 09:35 PM.

[Mec]

I wouldn't want a gay person in my household for the same reason I wouldn't want a druggy in. I guess I would still love them even though they were gay. . . it would probably ruin my life though.


Ok:

The fetus exists right? It must have been created then!

[Charon]

I wouldn't want a gay person in my household for the same reason I wouldn't want a druggy in. I guess I would still love them even though they were gay. . . it would probably ruin my life though.


Ok:

The fetus exists right? It must have been created then!

And I repeat... why should the fact that they love someone cause you to change your feelings for them, when they are infact the exact same person?

And just as a casual query... why wouldn't you want a drug user in your house?

The foetus exists as a foetus, however as a human being it is still in the process of being created. It does not yet exist as a human being with constitutional rights to life and freedom

[Mec]

I suppose some druggies 'love' to use drugs.

I don't want druggies

• It's is illegal.
• I believe it is wrong.
• The practices are potentially harmful to me.
• It would be a bad influence on other children.

Man: (second definition on dictionary.com) A human regardless of sex or age; a person.

Must I say more?

My feelings for other people are decided my the person's actions. If the actions are bad, my feelings will become more ummm.... negative towards that person.

Edited by Mec, 06 August 2004 - 10:16 PM.

[Charon]

I suppose some druggies 'love' to use drugs.

I don't want druggies

• It's is illegal.
  
  
• I believe it is wrong.
  
  
• The practices are potentially harmful to me.
  
  
• It would be a bad influence on other children.

Man: (second definition on dictionary.com) A human regardless of sex or age; a person.

Must I say more?

My feelings for other people are decided my the person's actions.  If the actions are bad, my feelings will become more ummm.... negative towards that person.

Being gay isn't illegal and its practices aren't potentially harmful to you
I would argue that it wouldn't be a bad influence on other children too ^^
I'll concede that you believe it is wrong, as I cannot change what you believe.

To consider the concept of age and time;

God started counting at the first day... when it was created. He didn't count day zero, before that there was no time.
We estimate the age of the universe from the big bang... the moment of its birth... because otherwise we do not know the point at which it came into being. Those particles that may or may not have been there before were not the universe... they were just particles.
Years... we count backwards and we count forwards but there is no year zero in the current christian calendar. It's time wasn't noted until the year Christ was supposedly born

age  n. The length of time that one has existed; duration of life: 23 years of age.

Main Entry: 1age
Pronunciation: 'Aj
Function: noun
1 a : the part of life from birth to a given time <a child 10 years of age>

When do we as human beings start considering 'age' ?
It's not been 18years since I was conceived, it hasn't even been 18years since I was considered to be more than a foetus... it's been 18 years since I was born

Edited by Charon, 06 August 2004 - 10:30 PM.