21 replies to this topic

[Crane]

As you should know, /scroll causes all text to stop appearing on the client window, useful to prevent message floods on alts that aren't leading or supporting other crits (i.e. Clerics).  There is a problem though that it is purely a client-side feature, and all it does is not print to the window... it still receives the messages from the server.

This causes a problem, especially in boss fights.  When you have a sizable party and you're attacking at speed, it saturates the client's connection with messages, the majority of which are virtually discarded due to /scroll.  While this may not be a huge issue for desktop computers, it's problematic for laptop computers or in cases where the connection is capped on how much data can be transferred.  For laptops especially, the increased CPU usage and network traffic from a boss fight, or general movement, causes the battery to drain incredibly quickly (and I speak from experience, like 2% a minute).

So I would like to propose the following: make it so /scroll actually tells the server to stop transmitting text messages to that particular client until /scroll is sent again to disable it.  This will significantly reduce the message spam and also reduce CPU usage from the clients decrypting and processing messages that are never acted upon.  As well as being more efficient on a laptop's power supply and reducing lag client-side, it might also help with lag server-side.

[Terron]

this is the same reason i've laughed at /scroll over the years. are computers still running, that are so old, the text actually boggs down your processor? Since the information is received regardless I don't understand its real function.

[Crane]

My laptop is barely a year old and it struggles.  If you don't /scroll, due to the way Windows and Nightmist work, you get a combination that bogs down even the best of machines, overloading the system with multiple "update text" messages for the displays, which themselves generate "paint" messages to actually update what you see... and of course the program has to actually process the incoming network packet.  Meanwhile, sending the same text description multiple times over the connection is a huge waste of bandwidth which puts your network card into overdrive as it tries to deal with the demand, and for something with limited battery life, it can drain it surprisingly quickly.

One problem that arises is when a player stumbles into a death trap; due to the huge influx of messages, some of the packets occasionally get dropped.  As a result, it ends up that your current room, inventory and stats aren't updated properly until you type /refresh, and the need to process this sudden influx of messages does cause a momentary hang as the clients, due to their single-threaded design, cannot accept user input or update the display while dealing with them.  It can be a bit confusing for the user.

/scroll helps in that it stops the text updating and unnecessary repainting, but you still get the messages going down the connection and the client having to process them, so it knows whether to discard it or if it is something not text-related and hence needs processing (e.g. updating your HP).  By making it server-side, the server can be programmed so it doesn't send the text messages at all if a client is set to /scroll, which saves on your bandwidth and is only a minimal extra bit of processing for the server, but has an extra gain in that it reduces lag.

[Terron]

i agree.
he should also make main 10 alts and further kill the lag.
epic thoughts.

[Sneaky]

Terron -- very helpful. I've picked up from your posts elsewhere that you're not a fan of 20 alts; to each their own. Where this becomes a problem is the newer areas on main (using inquisitor's warrants), which were designed to require 2 to 3 grandmaster parties of 20 alts to kill -- there's a lot of text coming through from all the attacks. 

 

I support this. How much coding does it require (I would guess fairly minimal if you're suggesting)? 

[xxx]

supported

[Terron]

to what posts are you referring?

are 4-6 players so rare, that 10 alt max isn't feasible option to eliminate lag?
-if so i may sell my multi alt account before i get it to large, heaven forbid i could play an online game with 0 interaction from other players, seems outlandish.
-thanks for the info sneaky, don't be offended if i seek a second opinion tho.

I support this aswell.

[Peacemaker]

4-6 players of the higher lvls are rare. There is a current boss right now that takes 40 characters to kill and one of those parties is almost all lvl 40's and the other has some included as well.

[Terron]

sounds like multi alt could use a little more "solo content". More than just golding, 5 bosses, and 15 un"noob"able Epics to keep people interested in the long run past arch.

heres a link show your support:

http://www.nightmist...showtopic=39411

[Element]

There is a current boss right now that takes 40 characters to kill and one of those parties is almost all lvl 40's and the other has some included as well.

 

 

This is very confusing! According to ice_cold multi server is for solo content and 1alt is for group content. Sounds like if you want to do group bosses you should head over to nightmist 1alt. sorry build could make changes but.. (well it doesn't matter why its just how it is haha).

[ice_cold]

 

There is a current boss right now that takes 40 characters to kill and one of those parties is almost all lvl 40's and the other has some included as well.

 

 

This is very confusing! According to ice_cold multi server is for solo content and 1alt is for group content. Sounds like if you want to do group bosses you should head over to nightmist 1alt. sorry build could make changes but.. (well it doesn't matter why its just how it is haha).

 

 

1a has solo content which includes: Spider King, Lyzanther the Enchanter, Elshira, SDG, Zanitos, Demonic General, Crystal Giant, etc.

Multi-alt has group content which is less then I just stated can be solo'd on 1a.

 

Lets stay on the topic at hand though which is /scroll and not content.

[Melchior]

Edited.

 

I just said to stay on topic.

[Gnarkill]

I like it, Crane.

 

Supported.

[Element]

Edited.

 

I appreciate you trying to turn around what I've said, however stay on topic like I just stated.

[Terron]

i have a question, if this was server side and you scrolled to copy/paste something or scrolled massive numbers of alts. what would happen if say a lot of alts were unscrolled at the same time? and would the server even keep that information for you to retrieve later?

[Peacemaker]

I say leave it how it is. Plug your computer in if you have battery problems. I can play main on labtop and desktop just fine and not have battery drained.

[Crane]

Normally I'd agree with you, but I've been homeless since the start of October and I have to rely on public Wifi.  Finding a place that has both a power source and Wifi is not always easy.  At night, not many places are open, and in the day, sockets are hotly contested if not locked from public use (I came across one place where you could only turn the socket on with a key - most restaurants deliberately disable their power supplies to keep you from staying long).

Wow, how did this devolve into an argument so quickly?

[Element]

This is coding and it sounds like a pretty intense rewrite. So this seems like a null argument if jlh does not update the code.

[Terron]

JLH will edit code if there's a logical reason for it. From his side most code changes that are game related just cause as many new problems as it solved. This one seems like a worthwhile update. I mean face it, most often you scroll so you don't get bogged by text. Makes more sense all together if the information wasn't even sent and the server discarded it.

only problem I can forsee, is if someone scrolls to copy a line or kill-shot. If the server discards the info while you are scrolled, you may miss something. Mostly irrelevant through clan history, but Maybe a Party history function needs added aswell.

[Stig]

It's worth pointing out that, on multi-alt at least, people tend to use /console if they want to copy and paste a kill-shot, as this gives them a static copy of the chat window with which to copy from, while the main window can continue updating with text messages.

'history is a pretty good idea too - it's strange why that one is missing.  Even staff chat has a history.

[Gaddy]

I support enhancing /scroll.

I've used the command ever since I started running alts - 3 characters at the time. My laptops and PCs have always struggled with alts, be it 3 or 20. The image and text input is just a lot of back-and-forth for them to take, I guess. My computers and internet connections are almost always pretty good - so I don't see how this isn't a benefit for everyone on Main. Or perhaps I just do something wrong.

 

This isn't a "lag" problem.

It doesn't matter if there are 20 other people on 180 characters or 0 other people with only my 8 - 20 characters. This is all about data transfers that could be eliminated, thus allowing the game to run smoother for an individual. That is why people got annoyed about the alt-limit pushers and other off-topic lag discussions.

[Razzoo]

I completely Agree with this suggestion, it would be benefical for players of all alts weither it be 5-20 alt limit, i've noticed over the past few weeks where if im running bosses and run long distances with my alts scrolled they still seem lagged at last spot and no monster/NPC shows present in the click area of the client, this would possibly help make running more then 10 alts at once more effecient and effective in the long run and would drop the resources used to register your movements on non scrolled alts.