34 replies to this topic

[Melchior]

Since it have seen pandi and the big man on and active I am gonna take a few mins to harp on about if nm had a automap it would draw a lot of players from Rok and revelation. :-) please make this happen.

[Momba]

Terrible idea. Half the fun of the game is the adventure. Next you'll be asking for auto trainers.

Edited by Momba, 30 September 2014 - 05:45 AM.

[Melchior]

An auto map is nothing like an auto trainer. A auto map is a mapping system that maps the game out as you move and has a icon that shows you where you are at. Like Rok and revelation had. Not to sure on how having a ingame map involes auto trainers but mk. Lol

[Perfection]

unsure how it would be added to the current client, but i agree it would be a good idea, limited range of the surrounding 2 or 3 squares in every direction.. unexplored areas excluded, and certain trapped areas excluded. 

[Melchior]

Buddy of mine was thinking of a stand alone minimap a few months ago but never worked on it cause of it being a 3rd party type thing. A inter grated map into the client would be great but a stand alone would suffice also.

[Melchior]

Doing alt+tab every 10-15 spaces sucks tho I like to have it all in front of me. :-p

[Gnarkill]

write out the directions ahead of time or print the maps out and have them on the wall or in a folder/binder(or maybe trapper keeper if you're a cool kid).

[Melchior]

Yea. I did just buy a new printer first one I ever bought might make some good use of it :-)

[Gnarkill]

Yea. I did just buy a new printer first one I ever bought might make some good use of it :-)

 

I can relate! when I bought my first printer years ago it was a crappy dirt cheap one just to print out NM maps hahahaha!

[Momba]

An auto map is nothing like an auto trainer. A auto map is a mapping system that maps the game out as you move and has a icon that shows you where you are at. Like Rok and revelation had. Not to sure on how having a ingame map involes auto trainers but mk. Lol

I was pointing out how this suggestion and many others are geared at wanting the game to be easy. Not sure if you play Multi or 1atl but I know that from a 1alt perspective having a map up on wiki and your character logged works great unless your one of those that play NM full screen.

[Melchior]

Sadly I do play full screen I try to play both servers some tho. Not really wanting he game to be easy just wanting more people to play and unfortunately the biggest turn off to my friends from other MUDs is the no ingame minimap.

[Element]

I think what hes getting at is that it would help attract new players to the game. Hes not really saying he cant do it himself but that it would help the game out as a whole. A well designed auto map could work for noob areas and just be blank for advanced areas. I find it amazing how impossible you guys want this game to be for new players to pickup yet at the same time are upset how the game has shrunk and how there are never new players haha.

[Melchior]

+1

[ice_cold]

I feel an automap would be a great addition to the game if done correctly. In my opinion certain areas could probably be already mapped for newer players like Nightmist city, Grassy Meadow, small areas south of Nightmist. Certain areas should probably be blanked out though like Twilight Jungle, Harabec Dungeon (West and East part), Island of Chronos, the trap filled top level of Pyramid of the 3rd Moon, etc. With the coding implemented it would be nice to possibly see a map buying addition added to the game. Would be interesting to see exactly how it would be implemented though as one can argue that if you're running through an area at a square per half second you couldn't possibly be truly mapping an area. Might be more interesting if certain areas are already on the map, some could be automapped (i.e. cities like Sarka and Dendeya or places like Sewers and Forest of Souls), some would need maps bought to add to the map like the Royal Forest and Cinderforge Mine (not the areas below though), some areas that can be partially mapped for main paths like Elmshire or the main path of Sentant Mountain, and some would be completely blanked like Stonewhisper and Cauldron of Shadows.

[Melchior]

I love the idea if buying maps also for a minimap system. Great idea.

[Cadabra]

Just use nm half minimised and use wiki

[Scripto]

I jut use my 2nd monitor as a map when needed. >.>

[Gnarkill]

I would support them going in for starting areas for those that need them but not in the wilderness at all. Again it is something that would involve coding.. which is what brings all good ideas to a halt these days.

 

That being said I do think part of "the need" for it is for ease and being lazy.. New players get more now days than players of the past ever did.. people give them crits and almost all maps and crafting recipies are readily available along with guides for everything and a wiki. Most of us started when alot of the maps weren't even common knowledge and we had to actually figure out the crafting things form scratch when added.. we dealt with it and stuck around.. if you were lucky you had a out of date "nm helper" program. So I would question if the ones that don't stick are really even interested in the game itself to begin with as these type of games aren't for everyone. Not seeing a map forces you to read more and pay attention to your environment which adds to the game rather than just seeing where to go and smashing through an area and being bored with it..which is exactly how I played Rev.. for a total of a month before I got bored and quit.

 

People keep pointing out why new players don't stick around.. so far it has been: the grind, the playerbase, lack of maps, the roller, pking, exp loss per death, lack of events, leveling system, things being pk(and thinks being nopk when they were) ect ect... there really isn't one thing I can think of that hasn't been mentioned as a reason for people not staying. I'm starting to think we're just losing the new players that want an easy experience.. and when they see its going to be a challenge/grind they leave. It seems like its always been about 1 person sticks out of every 10-15ish that try the game over the years.. We probably read more into it because with the small playerbase if you have 2 people that don't continue to play its actually noticable now where it wasn't in the past when we had people coming and going every week. Then there are the games NM is competing with on consoles and pc.. Not everyone is going to want to spend their playing time on NM when they can go log onto WoW or play Destiny or something.

Edited by Gnarkill, 01 October 2014 - 06:10 PM.

[ice_cold]

The most likely scenerio for a map system would be the dreaded 3rd server, as in the spin-off opal spheres. Simon had already coded it to the system, and I believe if people showed they wanted him around and wanted him to do Opal Spheres that he could be coerced into finishing the program. Outside of that, I doubt a map system would be added to either server due to the lack of player base, JLH's time restraints and his desires to code other stuff for the game, and the overall age of Nightmist which is close to 15 years old.

[Gnarkill]

Think we could beg either of them for a 3rd server with an old copy of multi(pre lvl 31+ areas) with level 30 cap and a 5 alt or 10 alt limit??  ... Pipe dreams.. I has them!

[Element]

Think we could beg either of them for a 3rd server with an old copy of multi(pre lvl 31+ areas) with level 30 cap and a 5 alt or 10 alt limit??  ... Pipe dreams.. I has them!

 Anyone ever attempted to buy a game license from JLH? (not nightmist but a copy off the code to build their own game on)

[Gnarkill]

 

Think we could beg either of them for a 3rd server with an old copy of multi(pre lvl 31+ areas) with level 30 cap and a 5 alt or 10 alt limit??  ... Pipe dreams.. I has them!

 Anyone ever attempted to buy a game license from JLH? (not nightmist but a copy off the code to build their own game on)

 

 

I'm not sure but that would be a great idea if it was a possibility!

[Oracle]

Just a technical comment on the logistics of implementing this if it was added.

As was slightly touched on in the latest server update announcement as to why the alternate DNS option cannot be removed from the log in screen. It isn't really possible to make any updates to the Nightmist Client at the moment.

As I posted at the time:

"Updating the client log in window will present further issues for users of WinVista, Win7, Win8", which is presumably most users currently.

[Adultery]

 

Think we could beg either of them for a 3rd server with an old copy of multi(pre lvl 31+ areas) with level 30 cap and a 5 alt or 10 alt limit??  ... Pipe dreams.. I has them!

 Anyone ever attempted to buy a game license from JLH? (not nightmist but a copy off the code to build their own game on)

 

for the record. ive tried to buy the gaming rights to nightmist. ive even offered a fairly good chunk of money. however. this being JLH's and simmons creation neither would ever sell. 

 

I even had a full time game programmer/C++ and VB expert who would have taken over the coding aspect of the game. 

 

anyways. yeah. maps. sure.... whatever.

[Tietsu]

Seasons don't fear the Reaper.

[Exor]

 

 

Think we could beg either of them for a 3rd server with an old copy of multi(pre lvl 31+ areas) with level 30 cap and a 5 alt or 10 alt limit??  ... Pipe dreams.. I has them!

 Anyone ever attempted to buy a game license from JLH? (not nightmist but a copy off the code to build their own game on)

 

for the record. ive tried to buy the gaming rights to nightmist. ive even offered a fairly good chunk of money. however. this being JLH's and simmons creation neither would ever sell. 

 

I even had a full time game programmer/C++ and VB expert who would have taken over the coding aspect of the game. 

 

anyways. yeah. maps. sure.... whatever.

 

 

Really? That's pretty sad to hear that JLH would rather let the game wither away than sell it so someone can take it up and better it. I mean I get not wanting to get rid of your "baby", but it's painfully obvious he doesn't give a flying turd about the game anymore and hasn't for years. That's understandable of course, but it would be nice to see someone take the reins and revitalize this game.

 

But yeah I guess I'm not too surprised. I contacted him twice in the past about the pre-reset Nightmist server. I even offered to buy it off him if he still had it saved somewhere. I didn't get a reply to either email so I just took it as he doesn't wish to bother with it.

[Element]

It's kind of funny that both nightmist and rok have fallen the same way. Both the creators could care less about the games but won't allow anyone else to work on the game or even buy the game. People use the excuse text games are dead to 3d but it's bullnuts it's because of lack of creators interest. Look at some of the card games out theres nothing 3d about those and yet they are top games in the gaming industry.

I understand not wanting to have someone change your game but just selling a licence of the code to build another game on (diff maps classes skills npcs branding etc) seems like a no brainier especially if you don't care about the game from a market competition standpoint.

[Gnarkill]

I'd like a more active owner but I also understand where JLH is coming from.. if he put it up for sale to the highest bidder who's to say someone who abuses the system/cheats, has been perm banned or is just untrustworthy(or overall disliked) doesn't purchase it and take it over? If someone took it over that the playerbase doesn't fully approve of then it would end up being the final nail in the NM coffin.

 

I don't think anyone outside of the game would actually be willing to buy and keep it going as an investment and who out of the current game staff/players aside from Gareth could be trusted to run the game correctly and fairly for all? I can't think of anyone.. there are a few qualified people but they're so far into the nm drama that I'm sure part of the playerbase would leave if they took over.

 

Element's correct, I think someone would have to buy the code and build a different game off of it thats similar and then theres still no guarantees that people will latch on to it like they did on NM.

 

Its one of those "damned if you do, damned if you don't" things.. I think if JLH kept reigns, got Gareth 1 or 2 trustworthy people to help staff and gave us back a product where everything doesn't need to be balanced/retooled using code we would be better off. Imo it was a huge mistake letting crits level past 30, making multi nopk while it was and introducing the 1a server. Resetting the old multi server and limiting it to 5(10 at the most) playable level 30 alts per user would have worked better and still caused people to work together to complete the harder areas and tasks. It would atleast let staff worry about things like new areas, events and helping out the playerbase instead of having to answer for(and try to fix) all of the things that aren't balanced.

 

All we can really do is enjoy what we have left and make the best of it.

Edited by Gnarkill, 11 October 2014 - 04:11 PM.

[Angelus]

No one but JLH will understand it, and in the time it takes you to find out everything and rewrite it properly, you might as well have started one anew. It's been build so long ago, without proper styling (seeing as it was a 2-man project), nor sufficient documentation and without any big prior experiences, that I'm guessing (although I recollect having talked about it with him before) that it's just a big pile of messy code. Unmanageable for even JLH himself (or it would be childs play for him to make big changes, or pop in new global features, which it clearly isn't). Lot of it is based on deprecated code and plugins as well I reckon.

 

So if you think you can maintain it, and even improve upon it (as seems to be your goal). It would be even easier to create one anew. The hard part is thinking up the world, with its algorithms and boundaries, which features it should offer and basically imagining the entire flow of the world so you can divide it into blocks to program against. Seeing as this is already basically all done. It's just a matter of making a proper OOP app that implements all of this.

 

Could ask JLH if you might replicate the NM world (as in the squares and objects). If not, to replicate the entire NM world is not that hard to do. Back when there was Christmas when I was staff, I placed Christmas trees and snowmen on every 5th square or something to that effect by running a simple macro. The same easy macro idea can be used by a staffer to just /tp to every square starting at 0, and copy all the square info, and every mob info that's configured to spawn there. The grids configuration and descriptions etc. are all in there, so just a matter of writing a script that transforms that data into the new app. It's not very nice towards JLH, but I don't believe it's theft in any way. Seeing as it's all made by volunteers, who haven't signed any contracts whatsoever. So the intellectual property is not his. Although if he were not to agree with it, and found out the intent, he could shut you out.

 

Think Zelimos was on his way to making one. Although you never know how long it will last unless you yourself are in control (but it would probably not help matters if everyone was running his own NM clone).

Edited by Angelus, 12 October 2014 - 11:02 AM.

[Exor]

Oh wow. That's some interesting information I hadn't thought about. I actually remember that idea was mentioned years ago when the subject of the pre-reset map was broached. Someone had apparently done something just like that, and mapped it all out, saving the world itself. Whether they'd still have it this many years later though is something else entirely. I don't even remember who it was that said they had done it, I think it was Ebony? I forget. I just recall thinking how smart it was to have done that right before the game was reset. Of course that's not what this topic is about, but it's interesting.

 

Funny too, I remember back in the day there was like half a dozen people working on making Nightmist clones. Not a single one came out to my knowledge.