53 replies to this topic

[Tietsu]

This was not intended to be a 'dicussion' thread. Keep that in mind before you post.


I would like to know what everyone thinks should be changed about Night Mist 1 ALT. I chose to pick 3, you may choose more.

For example -

1) I would change the way we are leveled post Arch.

2) I would like to see a prevenative relog timer.

3) New stamina line.


I would like to see how everyone's views match up.

[Sausage]

First off, you can't post a thread like this in discussion and not expect discussion...

Fighters do more damage.

Pallies umpteen dex matter more.

Cleric training variety.

Item variety. Not bigger better items. Pretty much what Kantele did for the Ranger.

Change the way crits are leveled post level 35.

I like the idea of a re-log timer. Trying to think of the pros and cons but can't come up with any cons at the moment.

[Angelus]

Discard the roller, and start everyone of with a 4 stat. It kind of works like like this anyways, except new players can't just up and buy one, but have to make gold with a crappy stat one first. Sure way of losing some new players who just came to 'check it out'. Then after say lvl 30, specific levels could make you gain a stat in a non-perf stat. Or have it as achievements, another possible boss drop in the form of a training quest (something other then a weapon or armor). I know people might be against it for obvious reasons, but if there will be a new server you have to start thinking outside the box and change these things before people have too much too lose again.

Individual level gains should be an individual effort.
I know 1a is about team work, but if you want to play as a rogue you should be able too. I suppose things like a n area with a token drop in the end which can be handed in for a special room in clan house, or whatever a creative mind can think up, is a much more suited reward for clan effort.

If a relog timer even has a chance, i'd say a max of 2 sec. Enough time for a pker to do his worst but not enough time to make it unsafe to log anywhere where there are still mobs on the square.

[Cruxis]

Class balancing for one.
-Thieves need a tone down, maybe zerks aswell.
-Fighters and pallies need a boost.

A log out timer.
-I'd think something like, character can't be disconnected without atleast 1stam, somehow keep the character on like when they lag badly and exit out.

Roller
Instead of 11 points between the stats, maybe 9?

Edited by Cruxis, 02 May 2009 - 08:30 AM.

[Omnipotence]

The rare event someone DC's at a boss or somthing is the only con about a relog timmer.

[Omnipotence]

Overall direction of nightmist

1:Make level 1 to 30 more friendly to players who like to level
2:Make level 31 to 40 more friendly to players who like to pk
3:Balance the classes
4:Make more realistic prices to level past 35

These are the 4 OVERALL goals in nightmist as I see it, how staff go about takes more thought but we should settle on the objective before we make SPECIFIC suggestions.

suggestions:
-start with 100hp to prevent suiciding
-some level/class/party restricted areas would be nice, maybe not the best EXP but better than arenas
-more vamparic weapons or lose the dotw
-remove the ktp or lose the arlin thieves entrance
(or make the arlin thieves entrance level restricted)
-fighters/paladins/berserker are the 3 lowest classes imo so those need somthing to boost them
-fighters/paladin need somthing in terms of ac/strength/hp
-berserk needs somthings in terms of training ablity
-make the cost to level past 35 a reasonable number that you could earn sensably
-reduce the hp you gain past arch to single gains

[Sublime]

As far as tokens go, i like the way that they are set up, but i do agree that it should be more 1-alt friendly. My idea is to add a seperate boss for each token boss, (Dropping what is basically the same token, with a differant name.) And a slight increase on the fee to get in, (125-150k?, Personally i would pay that just out of convenience.) These bosses could all be based from the Veteran Gladiator.

IMO, These bosses shouldn't be located in the same place though, tirantek is a very large place, and im sure there could be a few spots added. The only flaw i see with adding them to tirantek is the easy convenience to log to local and head right back to town to level, this problem may be fixed with some tweaking, maybe a differant area.

Balancing classes however will be very tricky, if people want it to stay the way it is. Something like adding armor that absorb's against Smite or Assassinate could help, or updating Fighter's and Paladin's, they could each use better armor and weapons, especially at higher level's.

[Tietsu]

Well, I deffinately don't want to see an upgrade to Fighter damage, but would certainly like to increase their usefulness. Like my old Cover idea. Wouldn't make them any stronger, but deffinately be more useful covering certain classes during boss run. That was one idea on a fighter that I seen no OP reprocussions, other than PvP (which could be tweaked)

I agree 100% with JP, I think. Although the Colliseum was a great idea in the beginning, it was originally made for Nightmist Multi. On one hand, I think moving the bosses wouldn't be a great move (atleast with no plans infont of me), but on the other hand, it would certainly make a 'new' Nightmist a little more fresh, something we haven't seen before.

My relog idea was originally made or 2 reasons.

1) Druid remorphing. (W/ Cobalt, I can solo nearly anything that doesn't L2L me)

2) Several PKing ALTs. I can stam on you, log another character and do the same thing. I have seen this done way too many times. My main reasoning for this is that it is a 1 ALT server.

[deadman]

I agree with JP's new idea for token bosses with increased cost, they would have to be in a new area though as having them around tirantek would be to easy.

Fighters and Paladins both need a pretty decent boost to not be so weak. Thieves and zerks need a tone down with smite and assassinate, not a whole lot but some.

After the relog timer got explained I support it for the reasons above.

The ktp should stay to prevent to easy gate training such as silversail, but they can't exactly get rid of that arilin thief guild without moving the spot to sell dragon gems to inside arilin.

There needs to be more class specific areas, especially for clerics who are fairly limited as to where they can go.

Also, language, harassment, perm banned players returning should be more closely watched and bannable to prevent the amount of anti-social players from being allowed to do whatever they want.

[Angelus]

I thought the relog option came into play because pkers were tired of people logging instead of running/fighting back. That's why I proposed the 2 sec log out timer. Seems now there's an entire list of things it should prevent. Apparently a bigger issue then I thought it was.

[Sublime]

Well let me go into a little more detail with the tokens,

A medium sized area could be created fairly easily in a place like Harabec, Blackthorn, Sarka, possibly even finish or re-create the area that Medora was working on in Silversail. Single out the bosses so that there will be 8 of them, i think being more individual will make people want to level more often, as they would now be able to do more as a solo character, solving at least some of the problem's that people have with leveling now.

[ice_cold]

if you dont have a pally, dont comment on wether they need to change or not. what we need to do, is see all classes at lvl 40 to say wether something is broken or not. currently thieves are too easy to lvl. there's been a large influx of pallys, theyre hard to train but can hold there own against all but druids their own lvl (but thats at lvl 30). before someone went changing them, these classes need to be checked with all available equipment, and at different lvls, pvp and pvm

[Thunderja]

I say know your role, otherwise you'll have to go one-on-one-with-the-great-one, and I will send you all to the Smackdown hotel.

[Sausage]

Armor makes a much larger difference on Assassinate then you all make it out to be.

If I don't have a pally don't comment on them? Cuz I've never trained one or dueled one or dueled with one... Sir yes sir!

Also, Alec, grats on the cobalt dude. Nice accomplishment. I'm not hating, just think it's funny how you manage to weave it into every thread you post on.

[Isolated]

I say know your role, otherwise you'll have to go one-on-one-with-the-great-one, and I will send you all to the Smackdown hotel.

Can you smelllllellelelell what the rock.. is cooking?

[Cruxis]

Then how come the only class thieves can never click unspelled is the class that doesn't rely on armor?

Edit: The only time armor comes into play is when it's extremely high, which only 3 classes can attain by themselves. Even then, being even 4, maybe 3 levels in rare cases lower than said thief will cause you to be clicked anyway. I'm not saying they shouldn't be the obvious winner in a duel, but they shouldn't be able to round crits that close to their level. No other class unspelled can do that to another, except maybe a lucky zerk.

Edited by Cruxis, 02 May 2009 - 10:58 PM.

[Walt]

Then how come the only class thieves can never click unspelled is the class that doesn't rely on armor?

I click stuff. Spelled or not.

[Tietsu]

When I can solo things no other class could imagine soloing, I am pointing out that they are extremely overpowered PvM. Thieves can not compare to a Druid when it comes to damage (on SOME monsters). But a druid can not normally compare to a click from a thief. Stating that thieves are OP'd PvP and Druid are OP'd PvM.

Example. If I were to duel Manda with her cobalt vs the druid and cobalt, unless I was extrordinarily lucky, I'd be easily owned. But if we were attacking the same monster, I would outdamage the living hell out of her, probably even if she got he new stam boost. I'd like to see both classes toned down.

I'm posting my views from 1 of 2 people who has one. I'm just trying to figure out a way to make a druid less pwnage PvM.

[Walt]

Are we speaking of a spelled druid, or non spelled druid. If you would like, we can compare with her thief, and mine, against your druid, and decide what damage is better.

With my thief, using Ed and just attacking, not using assassinate, I can hit upwards to 75/76 per attack. That is without spells, and or race/class bonus.


Edit:
One fix for druids is to make their morph last a bit shorter. I would say you can do upwards to 2xs the damage you would normaly do when unmorphed. Taking into concideration that morph lasts around 5 minutes(give or take a bit) and the low cost to cast morph(100 mana), it seems slightly, if not more than slightly overpowered. Combining that with druids insane armor spells that are stackable, you hit uber hard, and are pretty untouchable unless you are going against something that is a few levels higher then yourself.

Edited by Walt, 03 May 2009 - 02:26 AM.

[Tietsu]

Let's say for example, we go to Bandit Leader. A full round, I could onwards of let's say... 700 damage, on a good round. Average around 600-625. 4 stamming it, I'd hit pretty good around 400-450+. And if we were hitting Lioness (If I were to take you HnR), I'd do probably the same exact damage as BL. (BL and Lioness are pretty easily hit for high damage anyway). Would be a good comparison. But some mobs, armor absorbs are killer, but it's smart to stay away from those.

Edited Damage :s

Forgot spelled damage.

Spelled, I could do on a good round 600 damage on 4 stam. On 6 sam, I could maybe do around 900. I've done some of the damage calcs before, but keep in mind these were with a Druid Forest Bonus.

Edited by Tietsu, 03 May 2009 - 02:22 AM.

[Walt]

Then what you are saying is that your druid does more then 3xs normal damage when morphed. At least that is what it seems to me.

[Tietsu]

A druid gets substantial damage increase for sure when they are morphed. Very very substantial, Gaea's helps a bit aswell.

[Walt]

I know they "call on the power of nature" from morph, but 3xs the damage for such a small price and for it to last so long may be what is overpowering them so.

Anywho, all this can be worked out if Simon remembers he posted something on one of "those games" he plays.

[Dublin]

I know they "call on the power of nature" from morph, but 3xs the damage for such a small price and for it to last so long may be what is overpowering them so.

Anywho, all this can be worked out if Simon remembers he posted something on one of "those games" he plays.

I wouldn't go that far. When a druid chooses to morph, he is giving up some of his ability's for the extra damage. 1.) He cannot unmorph without logging or the 5 mins go bye. 2.) Can not camouflage or cast any other supportive spells.

[Walt]

I know they "call on the power of nature" from morph, but 3xs the damage for such a small price and for it to last so long may be what is overpowering them so.

Anywho, all this can be worked out if Simon remembers he posted something on one of "those games" he plays.

I wouldn't go that far. When a druid chooses to morph, he is giving up some of his ability's for the extra damage. 1.) He cannot unmorph without logging or the 5 mins go bye. 2.) Can not camouflage or cast any other supportive spells.

Are you seriously trying to say that for the small cost of 100 mana, you can do upwards to 3-4xs the normal damage that you regularly do, and have it last for 5 minutes, is not a smidge overpowering? We have one of the highest level druid users in game saying that they are OP when it comes to PvM.

I am just simply stating the obvious when it comes to what goes on. One advanced mana crystal= 5 minutes of trip to quad damage delt PvM. All at a cost of 200 gold coins. How would you clasify that?

I didn't say that druids were OP'ed, although I thought this for a while now. A druid user did. Are you calling him misinformed? Please do tell, and empower us all with your mighty wisdom, and ever-knowing knowledge of the game.

[Desendent]

ok, so i am fairly knowledgable about druids and would like to say for the record that your stats on what morph does to your damage is terrible hyperbole. come on. 3 to 4 times?!! thats not even close to true. it doesnt even hardly double your damage. the thing it does is raise your hit rate. learn the facts before you post stupid things like this please.

Edited by Desendent, 03 May 2009 - 06:19 AM.

[ice_cold]

i would say both thieves and druids are overpowered. mages slightly, but theyre expensive to train. most the other classes are fine if those 2 were toned down, fighters could use something, just a little something though. but then again, since coming back ive only used thieves, zerks, and pallys. i dont have the whole scope. my main is a pally, the only thing i think needs to be changed with them is that champs and holy should be able to be stacked as the server currently is, if things were changed, then i would say theyre fine

[Ascer]

ok, so i am fairly knowledgable about druids and would like to say for the record that your stats on what morph does to your damage is terrible hyperbole. come on. 3 to 4 times?!! thats not even close to true. it doesnt even hardly double your damage. the thing it does is raise your hit rate. learn the facts before you post stupid things like this please.

Agreed. I'd say druids need the accuracy boost and the boost in damage to make attacking worthwhile. Walt's idea of shortening the time morph lasts isn't a bad idea if anything actually needs to be changed.

It seems a bit unreasonable to suggest that druids need nerfing just because you now happen to have a cobalt.. if anything needs to be nerfed perhaps it should be the cobalt?

[Achilles]

How do you all know pallys need a boost when there arent any pallys ingame?.. 35+ pallys will own... kthx

Fighters could use a boost. Perhaps a Strength boost "spell"...

Mages are about right against everything but assassinate, which rapes everything.. a TAD bit of a reduction on how much armor assassinate penetrates would be ideal imo...

Druids player vs. monster never misses, which is overpowered a tad, but i dont see it really needing much of a change. maybe a slight tone down..
thieves rarely miss either and have a cheap vamp weapon. so both are "overpowered" pvm really... and when you add a cobalt to either of the classes and its ridiculous... cobalt=10mill and it should make all characters wielding it "uber", which it does..

Dont know why everyone thinks training a mage is expensive, its not, its just not exactly easy to train because of mana. And because of mana, pkrs know where to look for them... make an area for them to train "safely" from other classes, with slower exp and barely noticeable cashflow.. same type area would be nice for healers as the same principles apply about pkrs...

Berserkers are slightly overpowered, and as of now rightly so. They arent extremely overpowered if you look at how much damage anyclass does against them compared to the damage they dish out. If, and only if, they are toned down, they should be made easier to train solo. Hell, easier isnt the word really. Possible how bout?... Otherwise i think they are fine how they are.

Rangers are a pretty fair class... if anyclass is overpowered pvm, it wouldnt be druid, it would be ranger/hypno. But i have no complaints to this as it is the main "perk" to having a ranger imo... anyways i wouldnt change anything with rangers..

The only suggestion i have isnt based on my opinion with the classes i have used like most of the other posters.(i would probably be a decent candidate to do that as i've "dabbled" with alot of different classes at high lvls, but i dont think any player at this time has enough knowledge to make suggestions about fully balancing the game) Rather than doing that though, i yet again will suggest creating several test crits of each class about 33+.. one of each lvl.. Then test then to extreme measures against each other and against monsters. Tweak them and repeat. Once they are balanced, you have a game.


edit: oh ya, ima echo the thoughts of everyone that plays one alt, 35+ lvling=fail.

Edited by Achilles, 03 May 2009 - 10:44 AM.

[Tietsu]

I'm not saying Druids are overpowering because I have a Cobalt. I'm saying it is much much more clearer how overpowered they are when you -do- have one.

I do around 50 damage unmorphed, 75 damage when I have Gaea's on and probably double damage when morphed. It's not x3 or x4. It's simply a known fact, when you have a level 35 Druid, the ability to die to a monster deminishes greatly (unless you lag on a very powerful monster.) This is with Viper Claws** Top hit is 110.

The thing about a Druid is, we don't need Vamp Weapons. We rarely ever needs potions at all, unless we want a more efficiant run to Faravar. Druids can relog to heal for half (100 mana). We all know that a druid gets a small damage and accuracy increase for every level just about, so I would be in favor of morphing taking half a bar of mana.

Thieves have Vamp Weapon that helepd them substantially. Not all thieves took the DoTW route to level their characters, but all in the end has owned and used one to help them level. I personally think that Vamp Weapons should be non existant, atleast not with such a high rate. Cobalt, I'm not going to say needs to be changed, because it had cost so much.

Thieves and Druids are byfar the most active class in Night Mist, we see these simulations every day, these are the two main classes that need to be looked over for their overall balancing, with the exception of a Mage. But Mages are such a pain in the ass to level, they deserve their extremely powerful attacks.