32 replies to this topic

[ProApse]

There's been lots of crying about what is happening to Nightmist Multi...even (horror upon horror) a player declaring that Nightmist multi is cancer and the future is in 1-alt. So today I rolled a character in 1-alt to see what was so great about it. I am not trying to be nasty about this, but here are some issues that I see and I fear need to be considered. If I'm wrong? Great. But please consider these as issues established players will probably never feel.

Clan Emphasis of 1-Alt. This sounds like a very good plan, improving the social interaction of the game, encouraging cooperation, and all of that. Sounds great. But what about new players? New players are greeted with "Go away. Come back when you have something to offer. Go level up and talk to us when you are level 25." Yeah right. So will new players find a home in a clan? How would a new player know which clan to join? Would it matter? Think about it: would you know which clan to join if you were new? Wouldn't you want more information?

Leveling in other Towns. This has always been a part of Nightmist, at least since I started playing about six years ago. Okay, cool, the guilds have been rearranged to provide a new sense of adventure and discovery (wow as frequently as these things move and all the crying about how much work it is to make changes---who in the world thought this was a good idea?) Then, to get into a town, you have to be able to kill a monster which is a no-pass guardian? Okay fun. This is great to give people the chance to pk. Wonderful. That means that low-level crits are going to find it next to impossible to get anywhere. For crying out loud, I rolled a merely average cleric, got him to level 15, and tried to go to Arilin, got pked 3 times, and the one time I didn't get pked? I had to use an entire supply of mana (nothing in inventory due to the risk of being killed)....and I still couldn't kill the bear and enter the town. Then of course I got picked off.

I'm a reasonable player. I don't mind being pked...heck. I'm trying out a game that is based on pking. But when you start crying about why the game isn't attracting new players, please don't forget these considerations.

Just my opinion. And I'm sure I'll be flamed like crazy, but who cares?

[Throwback]

gosh for being a "vetran" u should know a cleric can kill rats faster than a bear, take a different route plz.
Joining a clan?? Why should we have to actively recruit or give noobs a chance, when all anyone wants to do is spy on us. How can we give every kiddie a chance?
If the kid can't learn the ins and outs on how to avoid getting pk'd its tough love from me. It's a game of survival and only the strong and smart survive. Quit complaining if your lacking.

[EvilDognapot]

Just my opinion. And I'm sure I'll be flamed like crazy, but who cares?

Nah, you're right. It's the same old story, people are taking the lead the same ways they did before, but the names are different this time. A few shared accounts/crits, and clans that consolidate power. People will say the game is too easy because the consolidation of power becomes more defined. Or they'll say pking is too extreme because from the bottom looking up, that's the most visible behaviour of higher levels. Most likely we'll hear both, but most definitely we'll see no dramatic difference between multi and 1alt in it's development over time. Already we accept that 1alt is the "harder" server, but was that the point?

Of course, what should one expect? It's 1alt Nightmist. Same old nightmist without alts. It could have been a "frogs in leotards" server, and we would all be frogs in leotards. The end result would be the same, it's the same nightmist. There's a saying about people who do the same thing over and over, and expect a different result each time.

Edited by EvilDognapot, 09 November 2007 - 06:58 AM.

[Throwback]

yea its called being a retard......guess ill make the 1 millionth thread about nm being doomed next, maybe it will change the world

[ProApse]

I'm just saying, don't cry when it dies. I'm through.

[EvilDognapot]

We'll all cry. For a reset. Or even more levels. Or joy. Or Freedom.

[ProApse]

yea its called being a retard......guess ill make the 1 millionth thread about nm being doomed next, maybe it will change the world

You totally missed my point. Here it is, as clearly as I can say it:

There is nothing attracting new players. New players will find themselves at an incredible disadvantage; changes are made that make it more fun for the existing players, but every change presents yet another roadblock to the new player. I'd like to see this discussed rationally...but holy cow what did I think, trying to pose rational points to most players? The reasonable players seem to be fewer and fewer all the time. Thanks for your comments Dongnapot.

[Angelus]

Reasonable players equal players that agree with you. Now where is the reason in that?

On a side note, what you expect if you ask MD to join, it's an elite clan (read: trying to act elite clan, no bash still got the <3's for some of u). But there are loads of other clans wanting members, your wanting in the top clan the second you join the game. If it was that easy then why would you even play if everything is handed to you on a silver platter?

I love overcoming boundaries its what makes it a game, so you got stuck at the ktp, means you have to find different ways. And im not talking about different routes (which is also a very good option provided in this thread), but different ways as in asking people to lend a hand etc. And the people willing to do this outweigh the people who don't by a lot.

I agree that NM will prolly always have problems with keeping its head above water, but your arguments hold little to no value in the reason why.

Edited by Angelus, 09 November 2007 - 12:04 PM.

[Spark]

Nightmist has already died haha

[PureMourning]

I am open-minded and your argument about clans is fair in the sense that they're not appealing for new players. On the other hand, the clan function was implemented in-game for the purpose you mentioned; to serve as a designation for players to group together, and work together. However, your argument about the level restrictions that SOME clans have in place is the basis of your entire argument. That's not the game's fault or how the server is set-up. That's purely player choice. Ask around, I'm sure more than half the guilds in-game accept all levels.

As Throwback said, you have been around for quite sometime (which doesn't automatically equate to skill) and you should have the common sense to avoid such feeble complications that you're complaining about.

A friend of mine started playing NM a few months back; and I mean brand spanking new, no prior experience. She too rolled a cleric as her first character, and she managed to make it to level 25 and do well for herself. On top of this, she also has the same attitude of, "Who cares if I get pked? I can handle it."

But the differnece between her and yourself is that she is actually true to that statement and doesn't base a few pks and rejections from a small handful of clans as the resulting factor of quitting and bringing it the forum.

Less hypocrisy please.

[ProApse]

sigh. Yes I've been around for a long time. The point of my thread was not about my experience at all. The point I was trying to make, merely using my experience as a reference point is this:

Nightmist hasn't changed. Players do the same things; some players will come; but not nearly enough. We all push people away.

My experience? Why do you think I rolled up a cleric in 1-alt? Specifically to cooperate with other players, right? Isn't that right? It's not like I'm going to become the most powerful player around, right? Isn't that obvious? I really don't care about being pked anymore. But what the heck am I posting for? I doubt you'll see the point even now.

[EvilDognapot]

I am open-minded and your argument about clans is fair in the sense that they're not appealing for new players. On the other hand, the clan function was implemented in-game for the purpose you mentioned; to serve as a designation for players to group together, and work together. However, your argument about the level restrictions that SOME clans have in place is the basis of your entire argument. That's not the game's fault or how the server is set-up. That's purely player choice. Ask around, I'm sure more than half the guilds in-game accept all levels.

As Throwback said, you have been around for quite sometime (which doesn't automatically equate to skill) and you should have the common sense to avoid such feeble complications that you're complaining about.

I think what we might be saying is nightmist is a one way street here. These clans are for a specific type of player, and they serve to consolidate strength and wealth to certain players. I think BoD was the first to be real strict about a level requirement, they dominated moshes, drops, quests, etc. the momentum they built for themselves carries to today in some regards. The one clan took the most wealth, and three people in the clan got the most of the clan's spoils. They earned it too. However, that's not the problem; the problem is that things like that shouldn't matter.

[ProApse]

Okay. Is there a way to fix it, from the vantage of a player? What if there was a clan with the goal of helping the little guy? Sure, it will be exploited. Sure, it will be targeted. Sure, it will be ridiculed. So what? Nothing new there. But what if some players actually set out with the agenda to help new players, to protect them, to teach them some style and strategy, with no strings attached?

I know what will happen, but you can't be taken advantage of if you know ahead of time that it is going to happen and you just plug on anyway. So, I for one, am going to give it a shot.

I'm new to 1A, on a cleric, and I have no game resources whatever, but oh well. I will do what I can to help other players. Care to join me in this? Let me know.

Sandfisher in 1A

[Throwback]

I help enemies and noobs occasionally, they need ride to harabec to lvl and cant kill ktp, i take em for free (ask steam and zeus and forget other) if a new kid asks me a question i dont ignore them. Im not sure how rest of player base reacts but the majority of md are not gonna turn the other way. If you dont ask for help or plea for mercy, we will make it a rough start for you plain and simple. (I cant even pk until they are lvl 14 anyways, if i can be asked to load my baby mage)

[EvilDognapot]

public chat. until lvl 10 you are in a clan. call it citizens or whatever. it's automatic, and until you join a clan or disband at lvl 10, you're in it. the only way that we might be able to stock a noob clan with enough players, is to make it's membership mandatory to lvl 10.

Edited by EvilDognapot, 10 November 2007 - 12:22 AM.

[ProApse]

That's a pretty good idea. If there was a way to exclude crits in accounts having more than a certain number of crits it would be even better.

[Redheart]

ProApse,
There are many of veteran players of Nightmist that agree with your post.
Do not feel You are alone in your opinions stated in your post.
Nightmist Solo Alt is not player friendly. In fact the irony is you cannot solo on it.
There is no cooperation between players unless of course you are in the "group"
of players that basically think they run the place. All the successful crits on that server
are shared between 3-4 people perhaps more even.
For the most part the gamers on that server are rude, inconsiderate and not new player friendly.

Think about it, If you get satisfaction over pking a low level crit at a KTP entering a town
Then you are just simply pathetic. You are extremely pathetic if you are pking a low level (15) cleric.
Personally I think in real life these people really must have issues. No social skills, low self esteem and no friends come to mind.
The NM1a server has become a place for the misfits of Multi, the rude and corrupt. There are a few good people that play NM1a but very few.
Perhaps you could change that ProApse, perhaps you could take the time to show people its not whether you win or lose, its how you play the game thats important. Integrity and sportsmanship.
Good Luck with that !

[ProApse]

Wow what a breath of sunshine!

Reading my own posts, though, I'm pretty sure I'm either boring myself to death or making myself nauseous. Not sure which.

[Throwback]

Dunno why this hasn't died yet as the arguements are not beneficial to any change *is there even an arguement presented?, I only see one suggestion of change* . And as far as ego's are involved, both servers have egotistic players, back in the hey day egos ran wild? The problem is if the kid gets so easily discouraged and can't persevere, tough love. While im not a noob slayer by choice * i attack people i know so i can talk smack* im not going to say you cant kill someone. However I am against repeated harassment from one player to another. If you kill someone twice i think u should give it a break for at least a day. let them play

[Redheart]

Obviously Throwback you are one of the misfits.
Your quote of " If you dont ask for help or plea for mercy, we will make it a rough start for you plain and simple"
just shows the fact your pathetic and a controller.
Well guess what
We don't need that type of attitude in a text based game that needs new players.

[EvilDognapot]

That's a pretty good idea. If there was a way to exclude crits in accounts having more than a certain number of crits it would be even better.

You know that's easily countered, multiple accounts, or shared crits will continue on as normal. With more wireless networks everywhere I believe I could probably run 2-3 alts on 1a at the same pace. I have a desktop with a switched laptop, and another laptop and could cycle through them in about a second. I don't know that people aren't doing this now, but if NM history has taught us anything (which it hasn't) it's that restrictions hurt the people they're intended to help more than anything else. But that's the NM mentality, we put a block in front of the problem and the game rewards people who find the way around it.

NM is just in need of a change of strategy. We've done the same thing for seven years now. Instead of "pking bad, stop pking" we could find a way to make pking less harmful to the weakest, and more harmful to the strongest. Instead of addressing power issues by making the game harder for everyone, make it harder for people who actually need a challenge. A person in ProApse's position doesn't need the same challenges that three people who take shifts training crits need. However the game is modeled to keep up with the latter at the expense of the former, and that's why we're at where we're at.

Edited by EvilDognapot, 10 November 2007 - 05:29 AM.

[Throwback]

obviously rachel you misunderstand the fact that those that endlessly pk are not members of my clan, so the pathetic and weak are amongst those you call friends.

[Angelus]

God you guys must be playing a different NM1a then i do then. Here for 3 weeks, lvled a char to almost 29. I treat most with respect and get the same in return. Ofourse there are bad apples, just like there are in real life. Welcome to humanity.

I see most crap starting cause of people like you, who can't take nuts. I got a page ones saying thanks for the cash when i got pked, that's funny, but i bet people like you would already cry about that as well. And call it harassment.

On a side note, i'd take an asshole over a crybaby any day.

"Perhaps you could change that ProApse, perhaps you could take the time to show people its not whether you win or lose, its how you play the game thats important. Integrity and sportsmanship.
Good Luck with that !"

Yea change that by crying on forums? Nice sportmanship, I can't win with the little time i put into it, so I'm gonna cry, indeed good luck with that.

Edit: I do like EvilDognapot's suggestion.

Edited by Angelus, 10 November 2007 - 03:12 PM.

[Spark]

Think about it, If you get satisfaction over pking a low level crit at a KTP entering a town
Then you are just simply pathetic. You are extremely pathetic if you are pking a low level (15) cleric.
Personally I think in real life these people really must have issues. No social skills, low self esteem and no friends come to mind.

Training peacefully on my urber cool Cleric and then BOOOOOOOOM:


Conflict cast a spell and a beam of pure light strikes out, blinding you for 69 points of damage.
Conflict cast a spell and a beam of pure light strikes out, blinding you for 71 points of damage.


Revelation dropped a Rabbit Fur.
Revelation dropped a Rabbit Fur.
Revelation dropped a Rabbit Fur.
Revelation dropped a Rabbit Fur.
Revelation dropped a Rabbit Fur.
Revelation dropped a Rabbit Fur.
Revelation fell to the floor, his injuries getting the better of him.



Conflict is lvl 27 and im lvl 17 so gg ^.^ ( Read Quote ) <3

Edited by Spark, 10 November 2007 - 04:16 PM.

[MysticStorm]

What if there was a clan with the goal of helping the little guy?

You're Level 15 right? Make your own clan and do exactly just that. It was the main reason why I started MysticShadows 2 years ago on Multi. The very same reasons you gave. I let everyone in that was level 10 and up and didn't care who they were. I even let fricken people that were in enemied clans in as so long as the pk'ing wasn't too severe. Yes, I have had to kick a few of those players out of clan because those were spies to see where exactly clan members were for the purpose of pk'ing. Otherwise.. all other spying is just fricken trivial.

Now.. I have leveled a druid on NM1a to level 16. I have only been pk'ed once. Not that I have a problem of being pk'ed either. My problem with the NM1a server is that there is too much immaturity as far as trash talking and people just acting moronic. (Note: I don't consider someone pk'ing being moronic or saying that's it's moronic. I mean in a mental/verbal state.) 90% of the server are players that have played from low teen years to now adult and they still act younger than fricken 10. It's why I no longer play NM1a because I have my hands full with my own kids.. I don't need to see a game that is majority Ages 18+ acting worse than them.

However I am against repeated harassment from one player to another. If you kill someone twice i think u should give it a break for at least a day. let them play

This idea was suggested for Multi a few years back. Putting a limit on how many times a crit could actually player kill another crit. Yes, we all know that people have multiple crits in one account. Seeing as how though you can only play 1 crit at a time in NM1a... I highly doubt people are going to want to raise a hell of a lot of crits just to pk. It's hard enough raising 1 crit to some people. So this idea could work better on NM1a. This way then, it gives pk'ers a chance to pk for a little bit but at the same time give weaker players a chance to enjoy the game a little. And don't tell me it can't be done because of strenuous coding or not knowing how to code it in because it can be fricken done, just need the knowledge to do it so don't give me no bs excuses. It can be done somehow!

Now.. my comment about "if Multi gets shut down." or the repeated forcing everyone to start over on the new server. I am so sick and fricken tired of hearing this. I play multi mostly because I worked my butt off getting everything I have on Multi. I didn't level crits for the purpose of pk'ing. I didn't even really pk unless I just got sick and tired of being killed. Even if Multi had not gone NOPK *which by the way, I heavily disagreed about it going NOPK and don't like it that it's not NOPK). I'd still play on Multi reguardless of how many times I got pk'ed. I was actually pk'ed quite a bit for the last few days that the server was pk'able and it didn't bother me a damn bit. The fact of the matter is, those of us that play multi, play it because we put years into what we have accomplished and the crits and clans that we have raised. Yes, not many players are playing Multi atm. I am one that does still actively play Multi. (and i mean actually exploring, killing stuff, what have ya and not just logging on and doing nothing.)

My question: Why in the hell should I be forced to lose everything because you couldn't hack it on Multi and now can't hack it on NM1a? Why should anyone be forced to lose anything because of it? No one should have to. I also shouldn't be forced onto another server that I don't want to play (NM1a) if I happen to like being on one that I enjoy? (Multi) I shouldn't have to. Few people said that NM1a is filled with the misfits and bad apples of Multi. I say good and let them stay in NM1a and out of Multi. Cause I don't want to deal with them. I'll deal with them only and if only JLH shuts down Multi. (which I don't see happening and hope it doesn't. If it does, I will find another game other than NM to play with because NM1a is again, filled with too much immaturity metally/verbal wise.) Bottom line, no matter what server you are on, players on both servers have worked their butts off for what they have and should not lose it every time a new person to the server whines about it and demands a reset to make it fair for new players. Sorry you didn't jump on the NM1a bandwagon when the server first opened. However, players there did and have accelled far for what they have and they shouldn't have to lose that because you can't hack it.

Btw.. can we please stop the NM dying threads. It's immature, it's stupid. NM, no matter what server you are on is still alive and will still be alive till there is not 1 single person logged on. If this game is so much of a problem to you, get over it and find another game or better yet, get a fricken life for a change.

I didn't name names in my post. Those that have made comments contrary to what i have stated know that my comments are directed to them and therefore do not need to be embarrassed further by me naming names. It's also directed towards future posters that want to add on to the immaturity level of bashing and whining.

MysticStorm on Multi
MysticShadow on 1a

[ProApse]

Sorry I even brought it up.

I thought it would be a nice gesture to try and do something to get people to work together in 1A.

Not interested in doing that any longer. It's not worth it.

[EvilDognapot]

Sorry I even brought it up.

I thought it would be a nice gesture to try and do something to get people to work together in 1A.

Not interested in doing that any longer. It's not worth it.

That's the spirit. Pull up a chair, we'll wait for lvls 40-50, the next reset, 1a pacifists, and other inevitable distractions from the fact that NM is unsupportive to most people's mmo habits. I mean, now that multi is all but officially dead, we shouldn't be concerned about 1a.

[Autek]

Multi

[Gaddy]

1-alt would be a very good option if-

1. The game had been designed for it, or at least majorly modified.
The game was not modified at all...

2. Players were actually unable to be on multiple characters.
People share, use multiple PCs, etc, etc...it ruins the playing field.

3. People brought in a positive attitude about the game and other players, especially new players.
However, we have not seen a great deal of recruitment to the game, but there has been some, and the player retainment has been pretty good.


So, I think the game still has a good chance of doing fine, if players want to get their friends on and work with them, like what was done on Nightmist in the past.
However, take away direct sharing of characters, etc. Players could hand around items with their friends, but own their own characters, etc.


I don't see new players coming to the original Nightmist instead of 1-alt.
This stems from how much more work and time consumption is needed to fortify and run an army of characters, often a few accounts, etc...rather than simply playing on one or two characters.
The original Nightmist is really just for the people who really enjoy managing all of their characters and continue to play for fun.

I think this is better for the original server anyway. Bosses are far more available, players do not fight or bicker, and the game can be treated as a game again, instead of a rat-race.

[ProApse]

PLAYERS DO NOT FIGHT OR BICKER?????!!!!! I must have entered a different dimension!