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Ideas And Thoughts Of Issue In Nightmist 1a


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#1 Ghost_Wolf

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Posted 04 July 2007 - 01:38 PM

Due to current issues in the game, and a notice of lack of intrest from other players i have decided to list a few things here.Some of these have been mentioned before, but under new light i would like to mention them again.


->Clerics in 1a-As we all know the 20% bonus to clerics has been removed for some time now.This was done under the understanding that clerics where training to fast at one point in time.How ever, due to the lack of the healing bonus, and the lack of experince bod on the undead monsters i belive that some things should be changed to allow clerics room to breath once more.It is becomeing more difficult to train clerics on 1a, and as such a noticable ddecline in people training/playing clerics at any point has dropped.No one really wants to play a cleric anymore or spend the time to get there cleric to aid because truthfully...it has become a great mountian of a goal to reach.Suggestions on this topic.


-Give the clerics a 10% bonus for healing instead of the 20% <-> this being stated due to the fact that the undead monsters in nightmist are not all that great, in my meaning is that demonic soldiers and vampire bats have between 50-55 pod.Now let me pose this question.How is a cleric supposed to maintain a balanced lvl increase wityh other classess when the other classess are able to go after the higher 70-98 pod available in game?

-increase the pod of said undead monsters.Such an increase may give the clerics the little boost they need for people to start playing them more often.


-> Theives and armor issues currently in game have become a big topic amoung players.Does everyone know what the load out for a lvl 30 theif is at the moment?lets observe- Feathered helm( easy enough to acess) midnight tunic/cpa (midnight 100k/cpa very difficult to come by on 1a) Vindicato's boots/Whispering mocasions ( one is 75k in harabec not to difficult the other is 400k cloud city not easy to acess.) Steel Bracers ( here is an issue-a lvl 5 armor equip for a lvl 30 crit? I would suggest soemthing along the lines of a feathered shield be made wearable for theives.look at the armor increase of other arch crits.The ability to wear heavy shields, the only other class that has armor issues are mages, and that is do to AoP (<< discussed later on.) Ring of Astray/ Crystal Ring ( ok..look at the difference here.the rings of astray are 450k i belive it is in harabec..the crystal rings crystal giant drop.netiher of these are easy to get to for different reason.The crystal giant itself is hard to come down, but will be disscused later.) Baron's/Hope Braclets.( not to much on this topic since hedge lord has come down many times.) amulet of hades(a few in game already, but also difficlut to come by) Do you see the issue here?I know there are other armor issues that can be noticed amoung other classes...but theives do seem to catch the bag.Fo instance they are also one of the current classess that will not recievie an arch weapon due to the fact they are not able to knock down the boss, or unability for a party to reach the area required.

->Rangers in 1a also have gotten the shaft, but this is due to a hit rate issue.If you notice there is currently only one arch ranger in game.The next up on the step is lvl 27.Rangers like clerics are equally difficult to train due to a lack of hit rate.I trained a ranger to lvl 25 and found it very stressful that my 4/4 rounds where more like 0/4 -2/4.Even with a melee weapon equiped there hit rate is still far below par.This is a reason as well rangers are not being played as they should be.Alot of crits are being passed back and forth due to this issue and with the issue stated about clerics above.Suggestions.

-Increase the hit rate of rangers slightly.Not to the point that they round everything they come in contact with, but just to the point where it makes the player say.."Yeah my ranger is awsome!" and it makes them keep playing.This way they do not get upset with the facte that it never seems like they are never makeing any progress with there crit.



-> Current monster hp/healing advantages.WE took a party several weeks ago to Captain Wilson...and got owned.There was a total of 12 of us in the party 2 clerics 10 attackers, we slighted him once.I have took a party of people to the Crystal giant and clericed there.It took us $ hours with a party of 10 that got bored and slowly faded away to take him down, then a party of 5 6-7 hours to take it down then.I can understand that these bossess give rare items craved for by everyone in the game, but do to 1 alt usage...it appears to be a little much.Ideas for this.

-Lessen the hp of the crystal giant<-> Now i do nto mean drop him to the point where it take 5 people an hour to take him down, but from the massive hp he currently has it is almost impossible.there are very few crystal ring in the game as is, and i understand that staff wont to keep that down, but the crystal giant is on a list of very few monsters in the game that will be very lonley very often. As for the captain, it is possible to decrease the amount of hp he heals himself for.A fellow theif and i went to go and try malok, a lvl 29 and 27 theif where owned...massivel.I spent 60k in pots myself to attemnpt this trip and we never scratched him.Here as well..lesson the amount of hp he heals himself for, or increase the time frame in which he does heal himself.As stated above, arch theives will be made usless do to the fact they have no acess to an arch wep due to the inability to reach or take down the required boss..and lets face it, there are not enough theives with that lvl in game yet....

-> Alot of the players have noticed dead areas in nightmist 1a as well as a blank spot or two in main.The paccie pyramid is now a terrible weight in 1a.Alot of players have asked about it and not alot of information has been given.The nymph tree has been removed from kantele, that itself was a star attraction and has been removed from both servers.The algon area has been removed due to it also is a paccie only area.These spots of concern have been mentioned as a cancer groth in nm by a few players.Suggestions.


-Open the paccie pyramid up to clerics/paladins.<->There has been rumor going around that the pacifists will be returned to 1a, but it might be a while.Clerics and paladans have the ability to heal and take on the monsters in the pyramid, and a few players belive that it should be opened up to other classess due to a "dead zone".

-Algon area<-> this could also be made avalibe to clerics/paladins until paccies come back, but it could be made avaliable to lower lvl crits.

- Nymph Tree<-> this one upset me the most.I understand why the tree itself was removed.Due to the rather LARGE amount of experince received from it upon it's death.This was the star atraction of kantele besides the rare need to pop in for bows for rangers of course.Bring the tree back but with some mild changes.It is possible to reduce the experince on the tree, and lets face it..with it almost 4-5 times times more hp the the crystal giant...who in the world would be able to get a party big enough to knock it down?The thought to bring it back but with less experi8nce gain at death would solve this issue with ease, if it seemed that this would be an issue make it harder then it is to take down now by giveing it the ability to self heal some how.This will also be a deterient to people from getting any kind of wild idea about trying to kill it.



-> A side note on pacifists.Alot of the players do belive that pacifists should be brought back itno 1a sooner due to it being a true 1 alt character.I understand in itself that it is widely unbalanced and that it is an VERY good gold makeing class.Some suggestions

- remove greater pact, lesson the amount of hp/mp gained after death of a monster<-> these ideas in themselves are not much,but other players feel free to suggest more wide scopes for this class if you have any.


----Some of these ideas are my own, and others have come from many players new and old.Nightmist feels..*sighs*..like it is going no where.That there is more being removed from it then being replaced.Alot of the players feel nightmist is rottening under our feet and there is nothing to do about it.People, feel free to give your ideas on anything here, if not then expand on what i have already put into place.Thank you.----

Edited by Ghost_Wolf, 04 July 2007 - 02:02 PM.

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#2 Foxie

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Posted 04 July 2007 - 02:24 PM

Cleric issue
- I have trained a pally and seen people arch clerics after the exp bonus was removed. I think we could possibly alter some monsters and increase the xp slightly, but balancing this remember that melee classes also attack them will take time. I don't think it's a pressing issue atm.

Thieves issue
- Armour with thieves has always been an issue.. staff are looking to overcome this problem.

Crystal Giant
- this has been killed, I myself killed it in 3 hours on an expert druid, with Myrdon who has around 28/29 at the time with 1 cleric (Zipo). With more and more druids leveling to use talons, and thieves to use ivory daggers and rangers with bows this does not need altering, in time it will become easier.

The Pacafist Pyramid
- if we open this to clerics/paladins we are giving them an area to train in where they can't be pk'd by other classes giving them a free reign which shouldn't happen. IF we open up this area, it should be for all classes, which would mean the whole pyramid would need re-balancing monster/drop wise. We already have enough areas which aren't used on 1a. Why add another?

Algon the scrouge
- Because this has a level 15 max i could possibly see this being opened to clerics/pallys... but why open an area with a drop for pacifists?

Nymph Tree
- this should never have gone ingame. simple. end of. Kantele is what it is for elves, with all the bows etc. Maybe it could be replaced with a low level boss or something we'll see, but nothing so ridiculous as something giving that much xp.

Pacifists
- They would require alot of changing before i would agree to see them in 1a.
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#3 Gecko

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Posted 04 July 2007 - 04:27 PM

ROAR teh almighty haze will speak.


I am a strange player.... i believe that the game isnt perfect how it is... but, with the challenges laid out, all that needs to happen is for people to either, suck it up train a cleric... or be stuck, now the biggest and i do mean biggest suggestion i have for this game is...




Pets!!!! i think you should either be able to buy, or rent a familiar to help you in your NIGHTMIST SOLO journy. Think about it.. why should a berserker have to wait for a cleric to do some REAL training... and clerics? they could use a lil dog or something to attack, Maybe splice in to where you can lvl your pets, but you are only allowed one and it CANT reset and every SINGLE pet is different even if 2 people have the same, its like rolling stats, where i have a perf dog or nymph to heal me, someone has a bad nymph or dog that does very little dmg/healing. i think this suggestion is best i've made so far.

I agree with Ghost a lot because players ARE gettin frustrated, something HAS to be done *maybe a new class or a new SOMETHING, more moshes on 1a? events? SOMETHING to make it more appealing.

#4 Ghost_Wolf

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Posted 04 July 2007 - 04:39 PM

:) ok...*points at Foxie's reply.*posts like that make players not want to reply on this forum.This is supposed to be constructive..give points..ideas all that good jazz.Come on foxie...I dont know how you managed to kill the crystal giant in 3 hours with two hitters and a cleric..when it takes 4 hours for 6 hittiers and a cleric to do it.IF no one belives me, ask puremourning, hollow or corinne/flicker in game.they where there with me at the time.You could also ask malhavoc and myrdon, they have been there with me as well. :)
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#5 Ghost_Wolf

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Posted 04 July 2007 - 05:04 PM

Tell ya what...dont worry with my post.Have fun all.Bye.
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#6 Against

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Posted 04 July 2007 - 05:45 PM

Like Ghost said, its supposed to be constructive...I have mentioned one or two of these items in a previous post and surprisingly it got some constructive ideas from staff. Soo...one thing i will disagree with Foxie on is; How is making the paci pyramid open to clerics/pally's going to make that a dead area. That was pretty much the most redundant thing i have ever read.

As well as your arguement that clerics/pally's shouldnt have their own area where the other classes cannot get to, because it will keep them "too safe". Please! Rangers and Druids have Natura do they not? And since when can a pally NOT kill a cleric? It does not in any way allow those two classes to be "untouched" when they train. Druids can only be touched by other druids and rangers in Natura; so whats the problem?

As for Algon the scrouge, gee, i duno, make the drop for something else? Its not that hard to come up with a simple solution for a VERY simple problem.

Now that thats all finished with, I will say this; Foxie's idea about possible replacing the Nyph Tree with a Mini Boss or something was an excellent idea. But shouldnt that have been thought of before it was just deleted from the game?

I also surprisingly, agree with Foxie's comment on the Crystal Giant. Yeah it may suck right now to bring down, but it did in main at one point in time too.

My 2 cents.

#7 Demented_Kitty

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Posted 04 July 2007 - 07:52 PM

-Ok... I agree totally with the idea of maybe opening the area up for pallies and clerics.... well seeing has how... druids and rangers have natura.... theives have the malok area and the mansion.... mages, druids, and theives have scarlet daggers guild to train in for low levels... So yes... a cleric and pally area would be nice...

- as for the pet deal.... EWWWW!! if pets come to nightmist... im through with it... lets not try to gurlie up a game that really... is fine the way it is except for a few minor problems.... plus if pets are brought into the game that is more bickering and arguing people will do...

- Theives- really do need better armor.... steel bracers at lvl 30 is rediculous....

- Malok... yes.... he self heals for too much in my opinion... i was with Ghost and the other theif and got owned as well.... sitting covert and watching Malok.... he healed himself twice in a matter of 5 minutes....

- Crystal Giant- The crystal giant issue.... i have no problem with it... but the hp is a little massive... i done the CG when i was in MO and it took a party of 5 to kill in 4 hours.... with a party of 9 this last time we went... it took us over 7 hours to kill it.... something is wrong there....

As i said these are my opinions... and here is another...

Emma... you are a fabulous staff member.... but when you say things like you did in your post it really makes some of us feel as if you only care for BoD members and only wish to help them... Yes its your clan i know... but I thought staff was supposed to help everyone? Maybe you do... im not saying you dont... and i dont mean this as a bashing, its just an opinion. Just like when i asked you possibly about the pyramid.... you didnt give us a reason why... you only said that the creatures would have to be balanced out for that... and yes The idea of replacing the nymph tree is a fabulous idea... would be nice for a new boss... anyway... yes Emma you are a good staff member... but when you say things the way you do... it just bothers some of us... Thank you for helping us and it is wonderful to see that staff still cares about the game... With that... i take my leave...
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#8 deadman

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Posted 04 July 2007 - 07:59 PM

Ok let's set this straight Emma is a staffer and a moderator of the forums, so she has all right to voice comments and try to shed light to people's ideas.

Second, she made no mention of BoD in the posts, she made a reference of what her Myrdon and Zipo did in TR not BoD. She is not biased in any way.

Third, Pandilex has made a topic in discussion forum to sort out problems on 1 alt. Use that instead of trying to bash the people trying to make this game better for everyone.
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#9 Demented_Kitty

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Posted 04 July 2007 - 08:20 PM

For one deadman... i wasnt bashing her... if i wanted to bash staff i would have done so a long time ago... and secondly... you were no were near us when me and her talked on the game... so until you have the full story... butt out... Emma is an awesome staffer as i said before... its just the only idea's i have seen her approve of have all been from BoD i havent really seen any idea's approved from any other clan... open your eyes... and look and maybe then... come and bash me... until then... butt out of it..

and btw... if you want to bash other players... do it on the ranting and raving forum... not on a forum where it is supposed to be peaceful... here is the link... sign up... and then bash me there...

http://destressingra...tsandraves.html

Edited by Demented_Kitty, 04 July 2007 - 08:24 PM.

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#10 Ghost_Wolf

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Posted 04 July 2007 - 08:27 PM

:) Ok..i started this thread to try and better nightmist.I now see that no matter whos ays what, nothing here will ever been taken into serious light.Whatever it may come to be, this form was designed for constructive ideas..not bashing people..half hearted comments..or any other garbage stated by anyone at all.This world is full of people with different ideas..different modes of conversation..and different opinons.The guy i bought all the crits i now have from left nightmist due to childish ingame fighting...flaming others..or bashing however you want to put it.This is a great game, JLH and Pandi did a good job with it, and people..not all staff..but some players has brought it to it's knees.Will it ever rise again?who knows...but i will return to the game once everything is sorted out.If anyone has any issues with the game, here are some instructions to solve all your problems.The one before me did it, and i am fixing to do it now, so follow along. Go to start, control panel scroll down to nightmist and remove program.With that said, i bid you all a farewell..and good night. :)
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#11 Ryuku

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Posted 04 July 2007 - 08:35 PM

It's funny and sad.

#12 Foxie

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Posted 05 July 2007 - 01:43 AM

I was replying to this from a staff and player perspective. Ask Myrdon the cg did go down in 3 hours, when we were all in TR. If the CG has 100,000hp for example he can spawn with hp to the +/-20% which means he could spawn with anything between 80,000hp and 120,000hp. And I think we can all agree that the 40,000hp difference can make the difference in the times in which people have witnessed the CG die. My argument for keeping the crystal giant the same is that, if it can be killed now, with everyone leveling it is only going to become easier, if we reduce it's hp now, in 6 months it will be far too easy.

I am quite happy to include a mini boss in place of the nymph tree, but the tree was removed because on this server 5billion xp would totally unbalance the game should anyone kill it. You say noone would kill it anyway because of its limitations, so why should it make and difference if it is removed for a while.

If pacifists are going to return to the game under moderations, do we really want to alter all these perfectly good pacifist areas? That is one of my concerns. However I would be happy to give algon a different drop suitable for paladins/clerics should we alter this area.

The pacifist pyramid is a much bigger area, and hard for me to explain to you how much we would have to alter this from a staff perspective. Monsters each have 100 different stats for example. hp, gold, weapon, damage, spell resistance, magical resistance, rate of attack, deviation, undead, healing just to name but a few. When a monster is made for a once class only area the monsters are carefully coined to for the certain class. Now to nm players a pally/cleric/pacifist may seem similar because they all heal, however their spells, armour etc are all so different. Which would mean to open the area to pallys/clerics it would mean every monster would need re-evaluating. Not only would each monster need re-evaluating but similarly the grid stats throughout the area.

Opening the area to just pallys and clerics I do feel is making it a safe haven for them to train. Natura we have to remember has a level maximum upon which limits the amount of "safe training" one could use. The Malok area you could argue is a "safe training" area for thieves, however the xp down there ranges from 40-60 which with the lack of a healer, makes it a pretty useless training area in comparison to other areas eg. Rg, Zeum, Gnoll Fortress etc etc.



I write my posts in reply to yours in the hope that we can find a way to improve this game working with players along side staff. I sometimes struggle to understand what people are trying to explain on the forum, so i always aim to keep my posts to the point and lacking confusion. In this post I have tried to explain where I am coming from, and how your suggestions look to a staff member, and the explanations for the difference in timings. I don't think i have even put forward any ideas from BOD members, let alone backed any of them. I would never put my clan above the game and the mere suggestion is insulting.
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#13 PureMourning

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Posted 05 July 2007 - 08:28 AM

Ghost_Wolf, on Jul 4 2007, 08:27 PM, said:

:) Ok..i started this thread to try and better nightmist.I now see that no matter whos ays what, nothing here will ever been taken into serious light.Whatever it may come to be, this form was designed for constructive ideas..not bashing people..half hearted comments..or any other garbage stated by anyone at all.This world is full of people with different ideas..different modes of conversation..and different opinons.The guy i bought all the crits i now have from left nightmist due to childish ingame fighting...flaming others..or bashing however you want to put it.This is a great game, JLH and Pandi did a good job with it, and people..not all staff..but some players has brought it to it's knees.Will it ever rise again?who knows...but i will return to the game once everything is sorted out.If anyone has any issues with the game, here are some instructions to solve all your problems.The one before me did it, and i am fixing to do it now, so follow along. Go to start, control panel scroll down to nightmist and remove program.With that said, i bid you all a farewell..and good night. :)


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#14 Against

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Posted 05 July 2007 - 05:00 PM

lol...thats all thats needed to be said =/

#15 Raylen

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Posted 05 July 2007 - 06:31 PM

Quote

I am quite happy to include a mini boss in place of the nymph tree, but the tree was removed because on this server 5billion xp would totally unbalance the game should anyone kill it.


Is that 5 billion a typo?

And is this tree on nm main?

What is the tree? And what are/were its limitations? Someone tell me lol >.>
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#16 Oracle

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Posted 05 July 2007 - 06:33 PM

It has been removed on both servers.

#17 Ryuku

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Posted 06 July 2007 - 01:33 AM

Gave 50m exp when killed, use hand axes to kill.

I was also told it had a pod, and with damage probably 1000+ a round, would be crazy. Never fought it myself though, so not sure.

Edited by Ryuku, 06 July 2007 - 01:34 AM.


#18 Crane

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Posted 06 July 2007 - 01:49 AM

Ryuku, on Jul 6 2007, 02:33 AM, said:

Gave 50m exp when killed, use hand axes to kill.

I was also told it had a pod, and with damage probably 1000+ a round, would be crazy. Never fought it myself though, so not sure.

Only axes harmed it, it had a 50 XP/pod but there were no damage multipliers, and magic barely scratched it. It also occasionally spawned a Nymph, but only about 2 per minute tops. Currently, no mortal has killed it, so the XP prize is only known through staff commands. The damage that one could dish out to the tree was generally quite low anyway, due to the low base damage of the weapons that have any effect on it. Ultimately it is more economical to hit regular monsters with better weapons.

I was a bit surprised that the Nymph Tree was removed completely and not toned down or something, or with XP prizes set to zero, but I can't comment. I just thought it would be a nice little addition with a secret reward for anyone who is bored enough to try demolishing it!

Edited by Crane, 06 July 2007 - 02:08 AM.

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#19 Crane

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Posted 14 July 2007 - 10:21 PM

I've been thinking about it, and I did make quite a big mistake in giving the tree such high XP, even with no gold as a prize; I underestimated the patience of some players.

I would like to suggest the following for both servers:

- XP/pod reduced to between 25 and 35.
- XP prize set to 5,000,000 - one tenth of the original prize, but still nice to receive with the nifty text to go with it, and hopefully not high enough to cause unbalancing issues for a low-level crit that nails the kill.

My reasoning is that most of the weapons that can harm the tree are reserved for Fighters and Berserkers, and the latter are more popular in large teams. The Nymphs that spawn occasionally have low HP but are 70 XP/pod, and a single Smite will likely kill it instantly and give the Berserker a high XP boost due to the damage performed, hence my reasoning for lowering the XP/pod on the Nymph Tree to iron out those occasional boosts. On top of that, the Berserker will likely be dishing out very high damage to the Nymph Tree anyway, and at 50 XP/pod this will add up quickly for very little work - if the players wish for a steady stream of XP in that area (especially if not equipped with Nymph Tree-harming weapons), there are plenty of Drow and Sprites around.

I thought originally that mathematically it would be more viable to attack monsters in the desert and the like, but I overlooked the fact that 50,000,000 XP would be dumped on a single crit and likely overshoot several level-up boundaries, plus on top of the XP gained from damaging the tree, it adds up to an awful lot overall.

Edited by Crane, 14 July 2007 - 10:24 PM.

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#20 Trevayne

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Posted 15 July 2007 - 02:22 AM

The idea is flawed for a number of reasons.

First, it allows players to get the tree to near-dead and then finish it off with a lower-level or a particular character (of any level) and have the end prize dumped on that character. That's a huge training bonus that could go to a character that does little or no work.

Second, think about the complaints that will arise from kill-stealing on this type of creature. You spend tens of hours getting this thing almost dead when I walk in and finish it off.

Third, static creatures who can be hit constantly with little risk are a magnet for auto-trainers. We don't need that.

I don't see any reason to re-introduce this type of a creature.
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#21 Gaddy

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Posted 15 July 2007 - 02:47 AM

Along with that, you are incorrect about it not having been killed.
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#22 Crane

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Posted 15 July 2007 - 08:16 PM

Okay, I can accept that. I was wrong about it not being killed because I was unaware of it until Malhavoc posted above. Reasons given do convince me that it doesn't work properly, so I feel I can close the issue from my end.
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