70 replies to this topic

[Xlithan]

ok seriously. This is just a question that has been running through my mind for a long time, so i have finally decided to ask the question publically.

In the bible, it says something like... God created the world in 6 days, and on the 6th day god created man. Ok, but who created the dinosaurs 6 billion years ago?

[Squee]

The Creation Story was to show original sin. It has no scientific bearings.

[Xlithan]

so was the story fact or, made up? i'm not going against christianity, i'm not a believer, but i just wanted to know, i'm not taking a dig so please do not take it as an offense, thanks.

[newb]

So, like I said before, he supposedly created all land animals on one of those other days.

But that would mean humans and dinosaurs existed at the same time, and it has been proven that they didn't.

bible=lie

kthx

[Xlithan]

Newb lays the smackdown.

[newb]

I'm newb, biotch!

*slap*


Note: I am newb

Edited by newb, 11 April 2004 - 04:07 AM.

[Squee]

You have to take the Bible metaphorically. All the stuff was written by an author known as the "Yahwehist" (God in Hebrew is Yahweh). This was during...blah, the year escapes me but it was quite a while ago.

Basically, the Yahwehist was trying to figure out why the world was so bad. He was trying to say that the world was perfect and it was humans who screwed it up.

The Creation Story shows us the good and bad side of us all. Cain and Abel and Noah, they're all just symbols, not actual people.

[Xlithan]

the story about God wiping out the world by flooding it with water, and only leaving noah and the animals, do you think that was the bibles way of saying..... God made an asteroid hit earth and wipe out the dinos? meh.... if he wasn't satisfied then, how can he be satisfied now? i mean look at the state

[Flux]

Here is one answer.

In the conceptual abstract of "seven days of creation," the ideas of "day" and "night" were not created until the third day. They were to "serve as signs to mark seasons and days and years." The sun marked the day (sunset to sunset), the moon the month (new moon to new moon), and the stars the seasons (constellations are seen in particular seasons e.g. "Orion" is visible in winter in the northern hemisphere, which is summer in the southern hemisphere). (Genesis 1:14-19).

Essentially, this could mean that what we understand to be "several billion years" ago could have been any given amount of time before these concepts were created on that third day.

[dec]

nice explanation Havanor.

Also you got to consider that one of Gods "days" could be several million years so the 7 seven day thereoy could be God's 7 days which to humans could be 100's of billions of years.

[dognapot]

i asked this question to some people who make thier living answering questions like this. no, not scientists, or paleontologists, but preachers. apparently this wasn't covered in the bible but there are three dominant yet flawed theories, excluding the one presented by havanor which makes too much sense to be adopted by judeo-christians (i guess that may count as a flaw).

1. the devil created them to confuse us, and throw us off god's path. no not dinosaurs just thier old bones. oddly enough, bones never mentioned in the bible never caused judeo-christians anywhere near as much confusion as everything in the bible.

2. god created them to test our faith. this is funny because i've also heard this story for UFO's. it's fun to imagine god flying around in a space-ship burying dinosaur bones. "man, they'll never get this! my ways are so mysterious!"

3. god created dinosaurs. the flood killed them. this involves crazy science because no one can think up of a realistic way for the entire earth to flood. i can't remember the specifics but one story suggests that a thick layer of the atmosphere was water, keeping the pure oxygen on earth (pure oxygen enabling people to live as long as methusala). then the flood happened when all that water fell down. somehow i think it might be bad to live on the wrong side of the sun and a magnifying glass.

meh, so that's what they tell me.

[Silverwizard]

Ok, scientifically many believe that there was a flood, there is this stuff, which's name I have never read therefore I cannot spell, it is used in ice cream though, but when these underwater creatures die, it is their remains, anyway, it was found at the top of mountains, therefore scientists agree that there must have been a flood since the raising of a mountain would destroy or bury it.

Also I am a Christian and I agree with Havanor, one day could equal one billion aeons which is a long time, long enough for dinosaurs to appear. The bible is not a load of crap, it is an acurate historical description formed of letters, ship's logs, and records of countries, this would imply accuracy, if you are to read the book of Acts where Paul is being arrested in a ship you can tell that there is a use of the ship's log since it uses the pronouns, the thing is you must take into account the translation gaps, weakening analogies and metaphors sometimes. (I did not use Saint Paul simply because I am not Catholic so we have no true Saints).

[Squee]

We can speel off scientific facts until our fingers fall off but what the Bible was really meant for was for teaching purposes; not to preach. To take the Bible literally is wrong.

Eve ate from the tree, therefore, women are to blame for all the bad things in today's world? Snake's are really Satan in disguise? Animals were created for the sole purpose of serving us? I don't think so.

Eve showed us all that we all have weakness. We are all tempted and, by giving into that temptation, we fall.

In the story of the great flood, everyone on the earth has become evil. They sacrifice one another for God, thinking He will bless them. Noah and his family are the only ones who do not partake in these barbaric acts and, thus, God saves them. This story shows that you cannot just go "with the flow" if it means violating your Christian beliefs. Because Noah had "true" faith, he was able to avoid temptation and, as a result, he and his family were saved.

When reading the Bible, it's important to read between the lines. Not everything written is just black and white. However, while reading between the lines, it's important to search for "useful" meaning. Does discovering God's real nature help us to understand Him better? I don't think so. I think, in order to have a healthy relationship with God, you need to do it on your own terms. No book can ever tell you how to do this, only guide you.

[Silverwizard]

Adam could have easily done the same as Eve, I personally believe eating the apple was a good thing for us. The apple was not a sin but a choice, we could live without free will and have no sin, or have free will and sin, God just recommended the first, does not mean you need to. Also, Adam ate the apple as well as Eve, so not just women are to blame, so are men, both were cursed because of it, heck I was talking the two curses over with femal friends and they say that they prefer the woman's to them man's. Also, not all snakes are, just the devil chose to appear as a snake at that time. I agree the bible is alot of metaphors but they are used to help explain true happenings. What denomination are you Squee, I would put you somewhere in the Unitarian level of thinking. The bible contains facts, just not put down in the same way, mainly because "Gods thoughts are not man's thoughts" (somewhere in the bible, I just forget where). If anyone has problems with the bible and needs a better explanation please go here and watch the movie.

[Xlithan]

nice explination guys, thanks. It has shown me a different way of thinking, that's not to say i believe, because christianity had caused alot of innocent deaths in the past.

This is FACT. The only religion that believes in the Devil, is christian, catholic, or any religion that involved following the paths of god/jesus.

Not even satanists believe in the devil. Because of this, witches were accused of worshipping this so called "Devil" and killed. well over 200 innocent people were murdered in 1645. they were tortured for 3 days or more until they confessed that they worshipped the Devil. Now, if you were starved, tortured etc for 3 or more days, wouldnt you confess to anything? Because of Christian belief in the "Devil", these people were murdered. Read up on the Witch Hunter General Matthew Hopkins, or watch Most Haunted at 9pm GMT UK where you will learn alot more about it.



Edit: Here is a great source of information about Matthew Hopkins.

http://www.controver...hew Hopkins.htm

Edited by Squiggle, 11 April 2004 - 05:25 PM.

[Silverwizard]

As soon as you give anyone some power you get bigots. People are over in Isreal are killing each other because their peace loving God thinks its their holy land. The witch hunters say, "Our God accepts everyone and says we should forgive, therefore we will kill you because we do not like you".

[dognapot]

Ok, scientifically many believe that there was a flood, there is this stuff, which's name I have never read therefore I cannot spell, it is used in ice cream though, but when these underwater creatures die, it is their remains, anyway, it was found at the top of mountains, therefore scientists agree that there must have been a flood since the raising of a mountain would destroy or bury it.

Also I am a Christian and I agree with Havanor, one day could equal one billion aeons which is a long time, long enough for dinosaurs to appear. The bible is not a load of crap, it is an acurate historical description formed of letters, ship's logs, and records of countries, this would imply accuracy, if you are to read the book of Acts where Paul is being arrested in a ship you can tell that there is a use of the ship's log since it uses the pronouns, the thing is you must take into account the translation gaps, weakening analogies and metaphors sometimes. (I did not use Saint Paul simply because I am not Catholic so we have no true Saints).

there's alot of strange things still baffling the hell out of all of us. how that sea creature got on that mountain will probably be a nice arguement for ages, and it reminded me of other "wtf?" moments in history, like the mitchell-hedges skull that is still impossible by today's standards to recreate, and coral castle. the worlds full of mysteries, and i think god is included on that list.

[Crane]

This has been abstractly mentioned already by Havanor, but in Hebrew, a day means "period of time", not necessarily the 24 hour day that we are familiar with. In the book of Genesis, the length of the day is not given - for all we know, a day in that context may mean several thousand or million years.

[Flux]

The Hebrew words for "day" and "hour", "yom" and "sha'ah" respectively, have come to be accepted as static periods of set time in recent nomenclature. However, they have been referred to in biblical literature as different dividng factors--"yom" in the case of creation and "sha'ah" in a long and complicated section of the Talmud going into appropriate times of prayer (Gemara Berachot 1:3).

Still, that's more of a footnote than anything else.

[dognapot]

i think fitting all these smaller and apparently undefined periods of time into a universally accepted period of time (a week) might be indicative that the events described happened in the course of a week. a week of days to be more specific.

[Squee]

To be blunt, 7 is a perfect number. 7, 3 and 40. They're all "perfect" numbers and appear numerous times in the bible. Those numbers simply symbolize a long time.

[Bean]

Hey havanor...

Did you get that theory out of... Ah I cant remember the name of the play. But that theory is used in a play about a religious criminal trial...

All I can remember is 'monkey trails'

Anywho, Im sure you didnt get that from the play. So ignore this post lol


P.S: Sorry if this post doesnt make sense

[Flux]

Haha no. It's a fairly basic issue brought up in rabbinical commentary to the Old Testament.

And dognapot, a week may be constituted by seven days, but in the case of creation, the concept of "day" was an abstraction. It was more along the lines of seven "subdivisions" of creation, especially before the concepts of "day" and "night" were formulated. Saying that a week is a universally accepted time holds no bearing when the seven days that constitute that week are abstractions.

[Xlithan]

Pretty cool. But what about the fact that christianity has caused more deaths on its own than most general things? in old times, again.. using the witch trials as an example, anybody that didn't follow the path of christianity, or stood out in a crowd, was immediately a witch, worshipped the "Devil", and killed. The "Swimming" test, which was one of Matthew Hopkins favourites, was to prove whether or not the woman (and in rare cases, man) was a witch. Basically, if the person sank, they were not a witch, and would goto heaven, but if they floated, that was showing that they were refusing baptism, because of the water, and were accused of being a witch. Often families used to push them back into the water with a pole, because if they floated, people would point the finger.

Now i'm getting these historical facts from Most Haunted live, it's not only interesting, but really educational. So, is christianity a good religion, or a bad one for causing so many deaths?

[Silverwizard]

As soon as you give anyone some power you get bigots. People are over in Isreal are killing each other because their peace loving God thinks its their holy land. The witch hunters say, "Our God accepts everyone and says we should forgive, therefore we will kill you because we do not like you".

Remember this Squiggle, the witch hunters were not christians they were people using the fact that they called themselves christians to kill people they did not like. God says to forgive and accept them, then he will deal with people and so they kill them? That does not work.

[Rattlesnake]

Eve ate from the tree, therefore, women are to blame for all the bad things in today's world? Snake's are really Satan in disguise?

*whistles innocently....*

[Xlithan]

As soon as you give anyone some power you get bigots. People are over in Isreal are killing each other because their peace loving God thinks its their holy land. The witch hunters say, "Our God accepts everyone and says we should forgive, therefore we will kill you because we do not like you".

Remember this Squiggle, the witch hunters were not christians they were people using the fact that they called themselves christians to kill people they did not like. God says to forgive and accept them, then he will deal with people and so they kill them? That does not work.

Priests were also involved in the killing of the so called "Witches". i used to be a witch myself, and it kinda annoys me when people associate witches with the devil, seeing as its only christians who believe in the devil.

Edited by Squiggle, 13 April 2004 - 02:58 AM.

[Deval]

Saying that only christians believe in the devil is a fairly uneducated statement.

[Bean]

I believe in what proves to be true...


Did that sound smart?

Anywho, Religion is all about interpretation, and no one person is going to get it exactly right. Thats the point.....

Oh and last but not least, Organized religion is a waste of time. If you need someone to TELL you what to believe you have a very small sense of self.....

[Xlithan]

well didnt god say you're only allowed to believe in him, and no other god? i'm sure it says that somewhere.